The locks for the Northwest or "Trade" guns

[TDM]

Thanks @Rob M.

 

[Rob M.]

No problem bud ... I. Gonna try and get these pics to download load . its a gorgeous trade gun , probably 1750 ish but about as fine of an original early trade gun , other than the Williams as I know of . its just gorgeous .....

Thanks @Rob M.[/US
[/QUOTE]

 

[Rob M.]

Thanks @Rob M.

 

[Rob M.]

Williams , early English trade gun ..Not HBCo . 1720s to very early 1730s style . no later. These exampled can give you a good idea of what early English trade guns looked like ....

 

[TDM]

Williams , early English trade gun ..Not HBCo . 1720s to very early 1730s style . no later. These exampled can give you a good idea of what early English trade guns looked like ....

Wow! I am fascinated and almost in overload on this great information! Thanks Rob.

 

[Rob M.]

Wow! I am fascinated and almost in overload on this great information! Thanks Rob.

Aw , your welcome bud. My favorite subject !

 

[Rob M.]

So a 44” barrel on an early (1740’s) English wt it would look appropriate , yes ....

 

[Rob M.]

I tend to prefer the Early Ketland (w/o bridle) from Chambers--but my tastes also run towards the NWGs of the late 1700s/early 1800s. If you're going to make a generic trade gun, the Davis trade gun lock is sort of a generic (later) trade gun lock.

Use what you want but an Early Ketland ? A flat faced lock on a trade gun ? Okeydoke .....

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Williams , early English trade gun ..Not HBCo . 1720s to very early 1730s style . no later. These exampled can give you a good idea of what early English trade guns looked like ....

Other than the buttplate this gun looks like a very early carolina gun. very cool.
I stated the other day that the fox stamped guns were post 1800 which isn't true. As you stated that stamp is a HBC stamp and goes WAYYYY back, but is only seen on HBC guns.
Trade gun barrels were generally measured in feet. For my carolina guns I copied a carolina gun barrel that Reeves Goehring had. It was right at 48". I found that measurements of trade gun barrels are never quite exact. They are usually "around" 48 inches, 47 1/2" to 48 1/2". They called 42" barrels "3 1/2" foot barrels. There is evidence that somebody was ordering carolina guns with 46" barrels as they seem to pop up fairly often.
BTW, Hoyt has my Carolina gun barrel pattern, It's an exact copy of the Goehring barrel. Tell him to leave off the wedding bands, he gets a little caried away with those.

 

[Rob M.]

Other than the buttplate this gun looks like a very early carolina gun. very cool.
I stated the other day that the fox stamped guns were post 1800 which isn't true. As you stated that stamp is a HBC stamp and goes WAYYYY back, but is only seen on HBC guns.
Trade gun barrels were generally measured in feet. For my carolina guns I copied a carolina gun barrel that Reeves Goehring had. It was right at 48". I found that measurements of trade gun barrels are never quite exact. They are usually "around" 48 inches, 47 1/2" to 48 1/2". They called 42" barrels "3 1/2" foot barrels. There is evidence that somebody was ordering carolina guns with 46" barrels as they seem to pop up fairly often.
BTW, Hoyt has my Carolina gun barrel pattern, It's an exact copy of the Goehring barrel. Tell him to leave off the wedding bands, he gets a little caried away with those.

Yeah , in the HBCo records it is 4 ft. , 3 1/2 ft. etc . I just always change it to inches as thats what folks refer to today . Yeah ,they were not stricklers for exact lengths either , for the flats on HBCo guns too ! I've seen Whatley flats only 4" long before !! Neat stuff ....

 

[LongWalker]

Use what you want but an Early Ketland ? A flat faced lock on a trade gun ? Okeydoke .....

Early Ketlands are always available, unlike almost any other lock. Using the original plate as a template, it takes me about a day to make a new plate and fit the parts. It all depends on what you want. The barrel for the last gun I did started as a straight octagon .54 rifle. After a long weekend, it was 24 gauge, octagon-to-round, and matched the 1826 Barnett I was copying. I could have just used an old shotgun barrel, but the gauge and profile would have been wrong, which throws the whole gun off.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Williams , early English trade gun ..Not HBCo . 1720s to very early 1730s style . no later. These exampled can give you a good idea of what early English trade guns looked like ....

I assume it is considered a Williams by the barrel maker's mark only? It looks like it may be Thomas Williams (crown over TW)? That would probably make it of a 1736-1740 make? He got his freedom in the company in 1736 and was contracting with Hudson's Bay a couple years later. Can anyone tell if the proofs London Gunmakers Co?

 

[Rob M.]

Who all makes them? Pecatonica lists the L&R trade lock. Is it the best, most authentic? Who stamps the fox/tombstone or sitting fox designs on these? Which are the best in terms of metalurgy and temper?

AND ! Danny Caywood ! I forgot ...was talking to him today and just saw this post again . His locks are good and are $210

 

[wattlebuster]

Danny Caywood used to sell his line of locks, separate from his guns. I have one of his Northwest guns and the lock is excellent. I believe these also come with the “fox in circle” stamp already in place. I associate this with Northwest Company guns. If I remember correctly, the HBC tended to use the “tombstone fox” mark, at least until the merger in 1821.

Best regards,

He still does Bob. I bought an undrilled RH Wilson from him just this week. Excellent locks. Fast an great sparkers. $225 shipped

 

[TDM]

@Rob M., I keep forgetting to ask, on your builds, do you drill the vent hole or use a liner?

 

[Rob M.]

@Rob M., I keep forgetting to ask, on your builds, do you drill the vent hole or use a liner?

I drill them ...no liner necessary .

 

[TDM]

I drill them ...no liner necessary .

Thanks Rob.

 

[OlSwede]

Rob, you’re right. I just pointed that Wilson Trade gun out to my wife earlier tonight. Page 135 of the book For Trade or Treaty. I’m seriously thinking about that gun as my 2024 project. You have a great eye for style. It shows in your gun building.

 

[Rob M.]

Rob, you’re right. I just pointed that Wilson Trade gun out to my wife earlier tonight. Page 135 of the book For Trade or Treaty. I’m seriously thinking about that gun as my 2024 project. You have a great eye for style. It shows in your gun building.

Thanks bud . Love me some trade guns. Posts pics when ya get started , love to see your progress. Best of luck . If ya want an authentic , ie light weight barrel., 20ga. only , holler at me , I can help.ya out ....

 

[OlSwede]

Thanks bud . Love me some trade guns. Posts pics when ya get started , love to see your progress. Best of luck . If ya want an authentic , ie light weight barrel., 20ga. only , holler at me , I can help.ya out ....

Thank you for the .20 barrel offer Rob. I had shoulder replacement surgery on my right wing the first part of November. It’s getting better now. Today I was able to fabricate, inlet and mount a simple Hawken style toe plate on a TC for a buddy. Don’t tell my Doc. Give me a month or so for the bigger projects.