The guns that never were - .44 Cal 1851 Navies

[duelist1954]

My .44 caliber 1851 Navies...not historically correct, but wicked fun to shoot!

The top gun is a Pietta with an Armi San Marcos grip assembly and the bottom is an Armi San Marcos
http://i.imgur.com/pLvFF.jpg

 

[crockett]

I read and lost the source that said there were about 6 Navies in 44 caliber made as prototypes for the Army Revolver however I don't know if they ever left the factory.

 

[cynthialee]

It is my favorite.

I never was one to worry about an historicaly inacurate firearm. So long as it safely puts lead where it is supposed to and feels good in my hand I am good to go.

 

[54ball]

Nice revolvers.
What you say is true but there were brass framed Confederate made versions of the 51 Navy in .44.

There was also the Confederate Texas made Dance Brothers with iron frames in .44, loosely based on the 51 Navy.

 

[Poor Private]

Mine is truly not period-- brass framed, .44 caliber, 1851, and a short 5" barrel. Great gun to shoot. Nice and easy to carry also. I have a couple of buddies who have the same gun.

 

[Zonie]

Admittedly I have only 5 books dealing with Confederate cap & ball revolvers but I have yet to read of a .44 caliber brass framed Confederate "copy of a Colt 1851".

The Dance Brothers pistols were not really copies of the Colt 1851 but except for the missing recoil shield the .36 caliber Dance was close.
The .44 caliber Dance was more of a copy of the .44 Colt Dragoon which includes its much larger size.

Not all Dance Brothers revolvers were without the recoil shield but most were.
They all were iron framed guns.

William A. Gary's Confederate Pistols (Taylor Publishing Company, Dallas, Texas, 1986), speaking of the Dance Brothers revolvers on page 63 says,
"The Dance Brothers were the fourth largest producers of handguns in the Confederacy and the only firm to produce both .44-caliber and .36 caliber revolvers."

While on the subject of Confederate copies of the Colt 1851 Navy, not all of them had brass frames and not all of them had round barrels.

 

[ebiggs1]

Why would Colt or anyone want to make a 44 cal on the 1851 frame? Besides the cylinder needing to be larger, it seems like a poor idea.

 

[hawkeye2]

"Why would Colt or anyone want to make a 44 cal on the 1851 frame? Besides the cylinder needing to be larger, it seems like a poor idea."

So that they could call it the 1860 Army! With a differnt barrel/rammer assembly and a larger grip, though some early ones retained the '51 grip. The frame, with the exception of the cut for the larger portion of the cylinder, and the internals are the same as the '51

 

[duelist1954]

The largest caliber I've heard of in 1851 Navies were prototypes made in .40 caliber.

 

[cynthialee]

The largest caliber I've heard of in 1851 Navies were prototypes made in .40 caliber.

to bad it didn't get past prototype. I would love an 1851 in .40

 

[ebiggs1]

If you handle a 51 Navy and a 60 Army, you can quickly tell the difference. The 51 Navy may just be the best “feeling” hand gun made. That is why not to. Maybe it could be done without upsetting this great gun but I doubt it. IMHO, of coarse! :grin:

 

[crockett]

Maybe it was .40 although I thought it was .44 because the idea was to see if the rebated frame/clyinder would work with a larger chambers in the clyinder.
But, as I understand it, they never left the factory.

 

[duelist1954]

The .40 was a straight-up 1851 Navy with bigger chambers and bore, no stepped cylinder or frame.

Colt decided that .40 was as big as they could bore a stock Navy cylinder and still be safe, but they decided that .40 wasn't that much bigger than .36 (really almost .38) to be worth it.

 

[Don]

Always found the 1851 more attractive than the 1860 for some reason and I love my 1851 in .44. I like the flat sided barrel of the 51 over the streamlined 60. Looks more badass than the army.

Don

 

[Bon Sauvage]

As much as I love the looks of the Navy model the grip of the Army model fits my big mitts soooooo much better.

 

[ebiggs1]

They measured the bore differently that we do today, as we measure the land diameter. The 1851 Navy is more correctly a .375 caliber. BTW, it was not a decision by the US Navy to adopt the .36 caliber. Although they did buy the 1851 Colt. It got it's name for the Navy scene roll engraved on it's cylinder.

 

[ebiggs1]

As much as I love the looks of the Navy model the grip of the Army model fits my big mitts soooooo much better.

You are certainly not alone! I hear this quite a bit about the larger frame on the 1860 Colt from folks with larger hands. But the balance and general feel of the 1851 Colt is amazing.

 

[necchi]

I'm with Ogre on this one,
I like both my 51 and 60, but my 60 just feels an fit's better in my club mitt's,
And the 58 is the easiest to shoot.
My thumb is an 1" wide and the ring finger is an 18, my little finger is as big as most Ladies thumbs.
So saying one is a better fit or feel or balance is a matter of what works best for an individual

 

[cynthialee]

WOW!
:shocked2:

I wear a size 10 ring and my hands are just a tad smaller than the average mans. A size 18 ring! That's a bracelet for a baby!

 

[hawkeye2]

Some may have misread my post or not be familiar with the 60 Arrmy. The 1860 Army was derived by taking an 1851 frame and milling out clearance for the larger outside diameter of foreward portion of the .44 Army's cylinder. Other than that cut the Army and Navy frames and internals are the same. This does not address variations such as cuts for shoulder stocks, etc.. The early production 60s had the Navy grip so basicly they were the same gun from the foreward part of the trigger guard back. The barrel/rammer assemblies were obivously different and this (and the larger holes in the cylinder and barrel) had a lot to do with the ballance of the piece. The 60's barrel length was changed early in production and it eventually got the larger grip which most of us are familiar with. Basicly the Army was built on a modified Navy frame just as the .36 Pocket Police and Navy models were built on a modified .31 1849 frame

I perfer the ballance of the .36 Navy over the 1860 Army myself but I do admit the ".44 caliber 51 brass Navies" feel good too and the Navy looks better to my eyes.