tallow/grease holes

[DanC]

This came up on another thread on patch holders:

A tallow hole would work real nice the way I shoot now but I cannot bring myself to put one in a circa 1725-30 French Fusil de Chasse.

Sometimes called a grease hole too. You see them in a lot of Southern rifles. It is just what it says, a hole in the side of the stock which is filled with tallow/grease/lube. No brass door. Just a hole.

I've never heard of this before, but am intrigued by the idea. Does (or has) anyone here used them? How well do they work (pros/cons)?

Any tips on, or better yet instructions for, making and using one?

Dan C

 

[rabjr]

Looks to me a wood auger would be used to make one in the stock and once cleaned up, just filled with warm lube and allowed to stiffen up.
http://www.roystroh.com/custommuzzleloaders89.html

 

[DanC]

Thanx for th' pics Swampy. Looks like he has a patched ball there ready to go as well. Interesting, but ...

Yeah, I kind of figgered you'd auger a hole and fill it with lube; however, some questions arise, especially after seeing the aplication there. First is it looks a little awkward to use, being as normally I'd lube the patch after the powder is poured. Am I missing something? Maybe a change in steps, like lube a patch before lowering the firearm and placing it between two fingers?

Second, possible problems with lube sloughing out in heat. Is there a type of lube that holds up better with this application? Like, maybe more beeswax in the mix?

Just curiouse, at least for now. But, who knows? Maybe ... just maybe ...

Dan C

 

[rabjr]

Well one could pre swipe a couple of patches with it and store them in a tin in the bag I guess. Especially if small game hunting where your expecting a few shots. :idunno:

You are right, guys here mix more or less beeswax or deer tallow depending on what kind of weather they are likely to encounter.

 

[Rogue River]

To me it seems that you would spend more time cleaning dirt and grime out of the hole than you would shooting. Besides I think it detracts from the appearance of the rifle! I couldn't bring myself to drill a grease hole in the side of a nice piece of wood. In other words I don't care for them! Just an Opinion! :grin:

 

[DanC]

Well one could pre swipe a couple of patches with it and store them in a tin in the bag I guess.

I s'pose, but then ya might as well just prelube a bunch in a tin and not put a hole in yer stock. I d'no either ... :idunno:

You are right, guys here mix more or less beeswax or deer tallow depending on what kind of weather they are likely to encounter.

Thanks again fer th' tip.

Dan C

 

[DanC]

To me it seems that you would spend more time cleaning dirt and grime out of the hole than you would shooting.

Definately something to consider. Would seem to be a solid "con", as around here the dirt is a.) sandy and very abrasive, and b.) usually airborne, often in mass quantities.

Besides I think it detracts from the appearance of the rifle! I couldn't bring myself to drill a grease hole in the side of a nice piece of wood.

To me, part of the atraction of firearms is their functional beauty. I'd rather look at a well made firearm than any work hanging in the Louvre. A tallow hole, well placed and done with obviouse craftmanship, and serving to enhance the way the owner shoots- that is a work of art in my way of thinking. I just havn't figgered out the whole concept yet tho, so the jury is still out in my mind.

Dan C

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

You can lube you patches, Use the tallow as a rust preventer, just rub you patch or tow on the tallow. You can also water proof your lock. Take your thumb nail and scrape off some tallow. Roll the tallow between your fingers making a string.
Prime the pan. Take the tallow string and form a gasket around the edge of the pan. When you close the frizzen you have made a water proof gasket around the pan. Then you scrape off more tallow and seal the space between the barrel and frizzen.
Some folks will make a tallow dam on the barrel channel just up from the lock. Rain water running down the edge between the barrel and stock will not reach the lock. If you have every had to shoot in a driving rainstorm you know what a problem this can be. Gunsmiths have told me that some rifles with patchboxes had tallow in the patchbox. A greashole was a simple way to carry tallow in a time when tallow was used for everything. The only disadvantage of a grease hole rifle. Depending on where you store your grease hole rifle, small mice will clean out a grease hole in a fortnight! Don't ask me how I know this.
:thumbsup:

 

[rafterob]

I can't remember the book, but I was reading up on poor boys and it was mentioned that according to one old timer they would leave a patch imbedded into the tallow acting as a cover.

 

[hoochiepapa]

As far as beauty, I recently, and can't remember where, saw a grese hole that had a metal surround. Brass or nickle would look really good.

 

[DanC]

... lube you patches, Use the tallow as a rust preventer, just rub you patch or tow on the tallow. ... water proof your lock. ... Roll the tallow between your fingers making a string.
... Take the tallow string and form a gasket around the edge of the pan. When you close the frizzen you have made a water proof gasket ... seal the space between the barrel and frizzen.
... make a tallow dam on the barrel channel just up from the lock. ... A greashole was a simple way to carry tallow in a time when tallow was used for everything. The only disadvantage of a grease hole rifle. Depending on where you store your grease hole rifle, small mice will clean out a grease hole in a fortnight! Don't ask me how I know this.
:thumbsup:

Wow! now that's the kind of ingenuity you'd expect from a bunch of po' ol' southern boys! And you even got the mice to clean it up for you before anything could go rancid! Thanks much for the much info!

Was this a common addition to caplocks as well?

Dan C

 

[DanC]

I can't remember the book, but I was reading up on poor boys and it was mentioned that according to one old timer they would leave a patch imbedded into the tallow acting as a cover.

Sounds like a good idea right there. Thx.

Dan C

 

[DanC]

As far as beauty, I recently, and can't remember where, saw a grese hole that had a metal surround. Brass or nickle would look really good.

That would certainly look nice, especially if it fit with the rest of the firearms hardware. I'm not real great with metalwork tho, so if I go this route I think a nice clean well placed hole should work fine.

I plan on going to the range and trying to work up a good shooting evolution for a tallow hole- but for now I'll just leave a can of lube on the bench next to me to simulate the hole. I have several dry patches strung and hanging between the fold of my double bag, so if it all works out this could be a handy thing- eliminate reaching in my bag so much.

I'll let you all know how it works out.

Dan C

 

[DanC]

Well, just spent th' mornin' at th' range, an I gotta say I like the (simulated) tallow hole. Followed suggestions from several people here, especially:

... I also like to fold over about a quarter of the patch, before laying another on top of it. If you do this with every patch, it's easier to grab the next patch, ...

One guy I shoot with takes a stack of pathes and runs a threaded needle dead center through the stack. They hang around his neck and are held by the friction of the thread. He pulls off one at a time. ...

So, here is what I did. First, I strung several patches from a string so they hung between the front edge but in the fold of my double shooting bag. I folded @ 1/3 over, and strung them loosely and off center. This made it easy to grab 1 patch without looking or fumbling. I put a tin of lube on the bench next to me and shot offhand to simulate field shooting with a tallow hole.

The evolution: Fire! (!@&^, 1st one is a flier ...). Holding rifle in left hand, reach down with right and grab a patch. Wipe/lube it from the tin, then reach up and simulate wiping from a tallow hole located near butt of stock. (This was very handy and a natural movement, flowed well when skiped the tin and simulated just the tallow hole).

Place patch between 3rd and pinky fingers (was handy, but I did drop the patch twice- need practice). Ground the butt as normal,left hand holds rifle near muzzle. Hold powder measure with left 2nd finger, as I normally do; fill from horn, charge barrel and replace measure as always.Grab a ball with right, retrieve patch from left and place on muzzle, then seat and fire as normal and the process repeats. (nice group, right on the edge of the black- hope the critter was running south-east ...)

The entire process was very natural and much faster than working from tins and patches in the shooting bag. Think I'll leave them in tho. Was good to have 'em today as I ran out of patches on my string before I ran out of powder. Good to have a backup plan!

Dan C

(Oh, and sorry for the long winded description of the process ... :yakyak: )

 

[rmartin77_99]

I hate to ask a dumb question but since I just started BP shooting a month ago I would like to know more about the tallow hole this thread refers to. Did our fore fathers' guns have this hole? I have never seen one in any of the pics I have looked at in the past month or so. I have done a lot of research since inheriting my rifle and have never heard of this. How large would the hole be? And on what side of the stock and where would it be placed?

 

[Zonie]

Some of the Southern states guns had a hole drilled into the side of the butt opposite the shooters face for storing their tallow.

Many of the Tennessee guns used it.

The feature was very uncommon on the guns made in Pennsylvania where most of the "Kentucky Rifles" came from.
The Pennsylvania rifles almost always had patch boxes to store their patches and small equipment in.

Some people say they have found tallow and such in some of these patchboxes and that may be true but most of the original guns show no signs of a patch lube ever being stored in them.

 

[DanC]

Since first asking (thanx for all the help everyone) I've tried the idea, and have come up with an evolution that I really like useing a (to now simulated) tallow hole- so much so that I am going to add one to my rifle!

Mine is a .54 cal, so the tallow hole will be 1 3/8" dia, which should be about right for a single patch to be placed over it as a dust cover for the tallow (probably just Crisco, but the jury is still out on that). I'll start with @ 1/2" deep, which shud hold plenty.

Like zonie said, on the lock/righthand side, away from my face.

Center of the hole will be @ 1/3 the distance up from the toe to heel, & located so hole is @ equidistant from butt and lower edge of the stock.

If it doesn't werk, it'll at least give the smokeless guys something else to marvel and shake their heads at when I'm at the range.

Dan C

 

[Zonie]

I haven't seen but a very few guns with one of these tallow holes but none of them were anywhere close to being 1 3/8 in diameter.

IMO something like 1" would be more appropriate even though the patch for your bore is larger.

Then again, it's your gun so you do what you think is right.

 

[DanC]

Thanx, Zonie. I may try that (1" dia). The thing about Forstner bits is they can be used without a pilot, so it would be easy to drill a larger over the original later. You can even drill offset, so location isn't supercritical with regards to an eye for later "expansion". So is definately a case of "easier to take more off than put more bak on."

'Preciate th' help.

Dan C

BTW, I found info on using Forstner bits and max speed in hardwood is @250rpm.

 

[rafterob]

As far as I know the only rifles to sport grease holes were some Southern mountain rifles. I think it would be out of place on a plains type rifle. You could disguise it with a small "cap box" like what became popular on some later plains style rifles. These were about 1/2 to 1/3 the size of the typical patchbox seen on modern "Hawken" replicas.