T/C New Englander turkey load ideas?

[Skychief]

I just bought a New Englander with the cylinder bore. As a newbie to bp shotgunning, I am looking for any advice for loading it for turkeys. Are there any New Englander shooters here willing to give me some advice? What does your shotgun seem to like? Thanks for sharing any help you are willing to give! Skychief.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Without telling us the gauge, whether your barrel has chokes or not, you are asking us too much to guess.

Check out the Shotgun articles in Bob Spenser's site.
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/index.html

He writes about loads, and the article by V.M. Starr also has excellent information to get you started.

Don't accept the company's claim on what the bore diameter is. MEASURE IT yourself, using calipers, or a micrometer. If you don't have them, find a local machine shot, and take the barrel there for them to measure for you. Its important that you know the exact diameter of the barrel before you go ordering wads to create a load.

I think you are a bit late buying a new gun for any Spring Turkey season this year. You would have to be extraordinay lucky to find a load in a short time for that gun, or any gun, to use this Spring. Next Fall would be different, as you would have all Spring and Summer to work up a load, and get used to shooting it. Most states have both a Spring and Fall turkey season, these days.

Understand that Black Powder shotguns are NOT long range firearms. With out a choke, they are 25 yard guns. With chokes, you may work out to 40 yards, but that would require a Full Choke, or tighter choke, and even then you have to select your shot size right to have enough energy at that distance to put a bird down reliably.

 

[Skychief]

Thanks Paul for the reply! The New Englander is a cylinder bored 12 gauge (I think that is the only gauge T/C offered). It is an earlier model (later models had screw-in chokes before they discontinued the model). I have been reading many threads here about load developments and cannot overstate the wealth of experience/information to be discovered here. Love the site! Thanks for any ideas concerning my shotgun and feasible or optimal turkey load ideas. BTW, you are right about "coming late to the party" as our Indiana season starts the 23rd. Thanks again for any help, Skychief.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Now I know its a 12 gauge, try a load of 2 3/4 drams( 76 grains) of FFg GOEX powder, then 4 OS cards, each one with an off-center hole punched into it, and the cards aligned so that no hole lines up with a hole in the adjoining card. Then put in 1 1/4 oz. of #5 shot, followed by two OS cards. I orient the cards at 12, 3, 6, & 9 o'clock for the 4 cards that substitute for an OP wad: I orient the two OS cards at 12 & 6 O'clock on top of the shot. Then I run a cleaning patch liberally coated with Wonderlube down the barrel of the gun. The lube protects the bore of the gun from rusting during the hunt. The lubed bore keeps lead from scraping off the shot pellets as they exit the gun, and thereby help the outer pellets keep their shape better. Finally, the lube softens the BP residue so that the barrel can be easily cleaned between shots. If you want consistent patterns, you have to clean the barrel between shots.

With this load I have killed pheasants out at 33 yards. I would not hesitate to use it on any turkey I could get inside 30 yards. That is pretty good performance for a cylinder bore shotgun. Unless you use shotcups, or jug choke the barrel, you are not likely to get better patterns than that.

Using the OS cards instead of an OP wad, a cusion wad, and then one Os card on top of the shot allows you to take only the one kind of wads with you into the field. The OS cards, with the off-center holes, allows air to immediately separate the cards, and help them fall out of the line of flight of your shot. If you use the OP wad, and a full cushion wad, you get donut hole patterns, because the heavy wads are drawn to the shot column after it leaves the muzzle, creating a small vacuum at the back of the shot, and the wads " bump" the shot, causing the shot to spread out, giving you a pattern with very little if any shot in the middle. A Donut hole. This is not good.

Jim Rackham deserves the credit for figuring out how to defeat the donut hole effect, and posting this loading data on the forum a year ago.

If you don't have #5 shot, and can't get it in time, then by all means use #6 shot. Just make sure the turkey is inside 30 yards for sure, when you fire. I have some plated #5 shot I was given as a present to try out, but I am not expecting to see any improvement either in patterns, or in pellet energy down range. Save your money and buy ordinary Magnum shot.

 

[Swampman]

I'd use 90 grains of 3F and 90 grains of #6 shot. I split a fiber wad, and put 1/2 over the powder and 1/2 over the shot.

 

[paulvallandigham]

What is a " fiber " wad, Mark? Are you talking about a cusion wad, or an OP wad?

 

[Swampman]

They are cut from fiberboard. Dixie Gun Works sells them in a bag. You can use your thumbnail to split them in 1/2.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Mark: I am trying to enhance communication. Everyone else talks about Over Powder wads, Cushion Wads, and Over Shot CARDS. I can only assume you are talking about Cushion wads, but refuse to use the term so that new shooters can understand you. I don't understand your problem. Either help, or stop commenting. All you do is confuse people by using different terms to refer to the same product.

 

[roundball]

I just bought a New Englander with the cylinder bore. As a newbie to bp shotgunning, I am looking for any advice for loading it for turkeys. Are there any New Englander shooters here willing to give me some advice? What does your shotgun seem to like? Thanks for sharing any help you are willing to give! Skychief.

As some related info, Circle Fly is a premiere maker of cards and wads for smoothbore muzzleloaders...here is their description of their prelubed fiber cushion wads:

Pre-Lubed Wads, 500 count bag. Shotgun sizes, We use the standard ½” fiber cushion coated with our own lube for these wads, and they are designed to keep black powder fouling softer, and your gun cleaner. We are able to coat the outside of the wad, and keep the centers dry. This puts the lube where it is needed, and keeps the wad as light as possible for the best patterns possible. Best suited for use in cartridge guns. Available in all sizes from 10ga. thru .510” $20.00

 

[CoyoteJoe]

That's interesting Paul, I've always called them "fiber wads", Lyman's Black Powder Handbook calls them "fiber or cushion wads" Track of the Wolf calls them "fiber wads" as does Dixie Gun Works and Circle Fly, the wad makers. Mark Lewis is using the same terminology as used by the wad makers and retailers of wads.
Anyone confused by the term "fiber wad" must have been already confused. :grin:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Your Newenglander shotgun has a shorter barrel than most original "fowlers" and combined with a cylinder bore your shot patterns will not be the best. The rapid spread of the pattern will most likely limit your effective range on turkey heads to not much more than 20 yards. An ounce and a half of number 6 shot and 90-100 grains of 2f Goex or Pyrodex RS should make a good heavy load. I'd recommend you get some of the turkey head targets to see what your max range really is but first fire a few shots on large paper or cardboard targets to see where the pattern centers in relation to your point of aim.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Joe: Then I am one of the confused. I admit it. I am confused because of the proliferation of terms. Now, Roundball is describing a Pre-lubed cushion wad, which is different from the dry cushion wads I get from Track that are made of Celotex. I know what HE is talking about, because I have some of the Pre-lubed cushion wads.

But I still don't know what Mark is actually using.

And If I don't know what he's talking about, how does some new guy on the forum understand? You can pee all over me any time you want, Joe, and I could not care less. But how about helping out with communicating for the sake of the new guys? :wink:

 

[Swampman]

I don't use shot cards because I don't trust them to stay in place during rough woods travel/hunting. I've never heard the black fiber wads, called anything but fiber wads.

I'm not into high tech. modern muzzleloading. I don't even like the fiber wads but they are cheap and easy. Sometimes I just use a sharpened piece of conduit to cut wads from an old felt hat. I try to avoid commerical products.

Cheap, easy, and as historically correct as possible are things I look for. It works for me.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Well, your fiber wad is NOT sealing gases as well as a cardboard, 1/8 "( .125") OP Wad would give you. 90 grains volume measured shot is 1 3/8 oz. of shot. You are compensating for poor control of velocity with more shot. To each his own. There are better loads to recommend to new shooters. When shooters are shooting short barrel shotguns, unlike your 42 inch barrel, they may not be able to shoot all that powder as efficiently as your gun does. You might share that information along with your load next time.

 

[Swampman]

I just kill stuff.

I don't care about (or even know) how fast it's going, or anything else beyond a tight pattern and a roasted turkey sandwich. :grin:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Geez Paul, you are in a fiesty mood today aren't you? First you pretend not to know what Mark Lewis is talking about simply because he used the same terminology as the wad makers, rather than the term you prefer, then you invite me to pee on you! :grin:
Walk into any guns shop in the country and ask for a bag of 12 gauge fiber wads. They may not have them on the shelf but they won't be in doubt as to what you're talking about.
As for peeing on you, sorry, I ain't that kinky but I'm sure you can find someone who'll do it for you, they might request a small fee. :rotf:

 

[nw_hunter]

I think some one must have used Ritalin as a child.. :grin: Just kidding!This is much better than a soap opera. :thumbsup:

 

[pmwest]

I would use this as a starting point:
T/C Manual

 

[paulvallandigham]

One of these days you actually are going to irritate me, Joe. YOu accuse me of spreading manure- which is not only NO COMPLIMENT where I come from, but the kind of language that gets your head re adjusted on your shoulders, but then you claim I am picking on you by saying you don't know anything about the diplomatic history of the early 1800s. Jefferson was fighting with a reluctant Congress to fund a navy to take on the Barbary Coast pirates that were attacking American ships, and holding American citizens for ransom. And, he had to deal with Great Britain, which was not living up to its agreement to remove all its troops from agreed American Territory in the Old Northwest territories, and saber rattling by both the British and the Russians that they had claims to the West Coast all the way down to the present day state of Oregon because of sometime occupied " Trading posts" they put there even when the French were claiming, and selling the land to the USA.

You obviously don't know the diplomatic history of the time, or much else about what was going on in Washington D.C. at the time, that caused Jefferson to send the Corps of Discovery up the Missouri River to scout the new lands we had just purchased, and to do it in secret. There are lots of good reasons why the government's provision of a mere 15 rifles for this Expedition were not well documented, and it had nothing to do with much of what the researchers have searched for here.

That there was a fire at Harper's Ferry, and that records of its work were destroyed is accepted Historical fact. It would be nice to have those records, since they would be the best evidence of what kind of gun was provided to Lewis and Clark. That there are no other records in the Treasury department or the Executive Branch of these arms is better explained by the diplomatic delicacy that was going on, and Jefferson's desire to avoid provoking a war with any of the powers.

But, of course, we all know that CoyoteJoe knows everything. Don't we???? :bow: :bull:

 

[Swampman]

Sorry if I caused a problem here. I was only trying to help.

Try to remember to have fun.