T.C.Hawken Shooting High

[Jimbo47]

Thanks to everybody for their input.
With my left elbow on the table, I am quite steady. I hold the fore end rather than let the rifle go to free recoil because I believe that will more closely approximate the point of impact I will get when shooting without the bags. If I was going for benchrest competition I might try free recoil.
I haven't had problems with accuracy; the gun will seemingly shoot touching holes with almost any charge; they're all just higher than I'd like.
The PRB's impact right atop the brass bead at fifty yards with the sight all the way down; I'd like a little more adjustment potential.
Still, things are progressing...
Thanks again.

The easy way to find out if you need a taller front sight is to determine how many inches your group is shooting high, then put a mark, or just aim that many inches below the target and then if your group hits where you had intended when you first shot, you know that you need a taller front sight, which I think is your cure for the problem.
I personally prefer my groups to be slightly high at 50 yards since my limit range hunting is about 75-80 yards, which should put me right on target.
Unlike a centerfire these old muzzle loader tend to have a more pronounced arch in trajectory, so that is something to keep in mind.
Sometimes it just takes shooting at different distances to find out exactly how your gun shoots.

 

[Rifleman1776]

OK, I shoot from a concrete bench at our local club range. I put a 4x4 inch block on the bench and a sand bag on top of the block. I grip the fore stock about 6-8 inches back from the fore cap and rest my hand on the sand bag. I shoulder the stock and rest my right elbow on the bench. It is a solid position and feels comfortable.

I don't claim to be the best shooter in the world, but I can see where the sights are when the gun fires. The windage is perfect; elevation is my only concern.

There are several bench rest types of 'rest'. What you are doing is OK for sighting a rifle that will primarily be shot offhand. But, in a match governed by NMLRA rules, the butt of the rifle cannot rest on the bench. In that case the forestock or barrel will set on the rest and your left hand (assuming you are right handed) will be under the butt supporting it. The two holds will result in different points of impact or POI.

 

[CheckSix]

OK, I shoot from a concrete bench at our local club range. I put a 4x4 inch block on the bench and a sand bag on top of the block. I grip the fore stock about 6-8 inches back from the fore cap and rest my hand on the sand bag. I shoulder the stock and rest my right elbow on the bench. It is a solid position and feels comfortable.

I don't claim to be the best shooter in the world, but I can see where the sights are when the gun fires. The windage is perfect; elevation is my only concern.

There are several bench rest types of 'rest'. What you are doing is OK for sighting a rifle that will primarily be shot offhand. But, in a match governed by NMLRA rules, the butt of the rifle cannot rest on the bench. In that case the forestock or barrel will set on the rest and your left hand (assuming you are right handed) will be under the butt supporting it. The two holds will result in different points of impact or POI.

Thanks for the information. I will be primarily shooting off hand or without a rest from a bench. Sounds like I'm doing the right thing.

I will, or course, alter my technique if I go to bench rest competition.

 

[DarrinG]

Checksix, I have a T/C Hawken in 50 cal. I have ran into the very same issue.
My Hawken rear sight is bottomed out and the rifle still shoots a couple inches high at 50 yards. I use a 6 oclock hold and my PRB hits at the top of the bull. Excellent groups, usually clover-leafs or touching, but high. My next step is to find a taller front sight as I've tried everything I can think of with the factory sights to no avail. That may be your next step also.

 

[CheckSix]

Did you try increasing the powder charge? I've been told that will lower the point of impact.

 

[Black Hand]

Did you try increasing the powder charge? I've been told that will lower the point of impact.

I think you've gotten bad information.
Increasing the powder charge served to elevate the POI for my rifle...

 

[DarrinG]

Yes. I tried everything under the sun, including lower and higher powder charges. My rear sight is still bottomed out and shoots high. Like I said above, my next step is to measure my current front sight and order a taller one.

 

[Gene L]

Brownell's has a chart on their site where they give their formula for what height front sight you need based on the distance you're shooting from.

 

[Black Hand]

...my next step is to measure my current front sight and order a taller one.

Dump both your sights and order new (matched set). Another issue to consider is that movements of wood or stresses with the keys might be warping your barrel and causing the problem.

 

[Elkeater]

I recently went from a .528 to a .530 ball and at 100y was 4" higher. I reckon that the little more resistance gained more pressure and flattened the trajectory.

You might try a smaller ball.

 

[CheckSix]

The barrel lays easily in the stock and the key can be installed and removed with easy finger pressure.

 

[CheckSix]

Did you try increasing the powder charge? I've been told that will lower the point of impact.

I think you've gotten bad information.
Increasing the powder charge served to elevate the POI for my rifle...

That's what I thought, too, but stubshaft said more powder would mean higher velocity and the higher velocity would push the ball out before the barrel rose as far in recoil. Of course, more powder = more recoil, so which would win - barrel rise from recoil or barrel exit from speed?
Anyway, I'm willing to try 80 grains.

 

[Gene L]

That's the way it should be. The mv increase means it exits the barrel earlier and (provided you've got it sighted in for a lighter charge) will lower the point of impact. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but there it is. Same with say, a 1911 pistol. Slower loads will impact higher.

Also, putting new sights on it (like front and rear) won't necessarily fix it, if there's a reason why it won't shot right with factory sights. Probably needs a new, taller front sight.

 

[Black Hand]

....more powder would mean higher velocity and the higher velocity would push the ball out before the barrel rose as far in recoil.

The ball has likely already exited the barrel before the recoil moves anything... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projectile_motion

Velocity is critical.

 

[Griz44Mag]

That's the way it should be. The mv increase means it exits the barrel earlier and (provided you've got it sighted in for a lighter charge) will lower the point of impact. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but there it is. Same with say, a 1911 pistol. Slower loads will impact higher.

Got my first Colt in '68. Now have 17 of them.
That is quite the opposite of what happens in any of my Colt pistols. Powder up and raise the POI. Maybe you just have a weak grip and can't hold your pistol firm enough...
Gravity does work....

 

[CheckSix]

Well, next trip to the range, I'll up the charge to 80 grains, see where it hits, and report back.
Inquiring minds want to know...

 

[DarrinG]

Checksix, I'm interested to see what your results are also. I uped my charge to 90 grains and back down to 60 with no change. So I'm staying at my normal charge of 75g, where my rifle groups the best.

Being a hunter, and prime hunting time as dusk starts to settle in, in the deer timber, I'm going to go with a set of fiber optic sights anyhow for better visibility in low light, and hoping to kill 2 birds with 1 stone...more adjustability in the sights and better visibility in low light.

 

[nhmoose]

Find the best group you can get with your rifle forget where they hit.

Once you find that adjust the sights PERIOD.

 

[CheckSix]

Did you have the same point of impact for each charge, 60 through 90?

 

[Gene L]

....more powder would mean higher velocity and the higher velocity would push the ball out before the barrel rose as far in recoil.

The ball has likely already exited the barrel before the recoil moves anything... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projectile_motion

Velocity is critical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm_xuzHHuG0