T.C.Hawken Shooting High

[azmntman]

op:

 

[Gene L]

Less powder and a slower ball means you have to aim higher to lob the ball into the zero.

There is a basic misunderstanding here, I think. If you change the powder charge without changing the sights, the gun is no longer sighted in at 100 yards. Then, if you want to hit that same 100 yard target at the same spot, you will of course have to aim higher or lower.

Forget about hitting the same point on the target. Change the powder charge but still use the same sight picture to shoot at the target. If you increased the charge the ball will hit high. If you lowered the charge, the ball will hit low.

Spence

While what you said is basically right, it's not relevant. I said specifically with a 100 yard zero, regardless of the charge. The zero is the constant, not the powder charge. You can hit a 100 yard target with 40 grains of powder in a 50 caliber if you zero it in. You're changing the parameters to suit your argument. I thought I emphasized that constant (saying it twice) but I may not.

 

[azmntman]

argument :shocked2:



op:

 

[azmntman]

I hold my pencil differently. I won a penmanship award once in 4th grade. The next week I was chastised for holding the pencil differently. THAT WAS FUN :grin: 4th grader asking teacher "so, I need to hold my pencil differently than I do so I can write like the others?" Short chastisement :rotf:

I believe 95% of us here can site in a rifle to meet the way we shoot. Now 95% of you guys that do it wrong likely cant hit nothin with my rifle :haha:

 

[Black Hand]

Less powder and a slower ball means you have to aim higher to lob the ball into the zero.

There is a basic misunderstanding here, I think. If you change the powder charge without changing the sights, the gun is no longer sighted in at 100 yards. Then, if you want to hit that same 100 yard target at the same spot, you will of course have to aim higher or lower.

Forget about hitting the same point on the target. Change the powder charge but still use the same sight picture to shoot at the target. If you increased the charge the ball will hit high. If you lowered the charge, the ball will hit low.

Spence

While what you said is basically right, it's not relevant. I said specifically with a 100 yard zero, regardless of the charge. The zero is the constant, not the powder charge. You can hit a 100 yard target with 40 grains of powder in a 50 caliber if you zero it in. You're changing the parameters to suit your argument. I thought I emphasized that constant (saying it twice) but I may not.

What we have been saying is relevant. Once again, if nothing but the powder charge is changed (increased in this case), the ball will impact higher on the target. Or in your words, the only parameter that is different is the powder charge. We ARE NOT re-zeroing...if a sight picture/zero setting results in a low hit at a particular charge, increasing the powder charge (and NOTHING ELSE) will elevate the point of impact.

 

[mooman76]

I have also heard of lowering the powder charge to raise impact and from too many credible sources to discount it but it doesn't mean it will always happen since all guns are different. Also when I heard of it happening I believe it was always pistols. That being said try it, if it doesn't work move on. This thread has gone on way to long for such a simple thing to fix.

 

[Gene L]

Less powder and a slower ball means you have to aim higher to lob the ball into the zero.

There is a basic misunderstanding here, I think. If you change the powder charge without changing the sights, the gun is no longer sighted in at 100 yards. Then, if you want to hit that same 100 yard target at the same spot, you will of course have to aim higher or lower.

Forget about hitting the same point on the target. Change the powder charge but still use the same sight picture to shoot at the target. If you increased the charge the ball will hit high. If you lowered the charge, the ball will hit low.

Spence

While what you said is basically right, it's not relevant. I said specifically with a 100 yard zero, regardless of the charge. The zero is the constant, not the powder charge. You can hit a 100 yard target with 40 grains of powder in a 50 caliber if you zero it in. You're changing the parameters to suit your argument. I thought I emphasized that constant (saying it twice) but I may not.

What we have been saying is relevant. Once again, if nothing but the powder charge is changed (increased in this case), the ball will impact higher on the target. Or in your words, the only parameter that is different is the powder charge. We ARE NOT re-zeroing...if a sight picture/zero setting results in a low hit at a particular charge, increasing the powder charge (and NOTHING ELSE) will elevate the point of impact.

Yes, but you're abandoning your argument to make some sort of obvious point that doesn't relate to anything I can see that's been covered so far. ZERO is 100 yards. Same sight picture, same etc. It's the constant here, not the powder charge or anything else. It's where the ball impacts at closer range (where it naturally prints higher) that is my point, not where it impacts at 100, since that is the given zero.

I honestly think you're in denial of your past posts.

 

[Black Hand]

The OP has already decided to play with powder charges and determine the effect on POI. This continues as an effort to correct a misunderstanding/misinterpretation of projectile ballistics...

 

[George]

I think I can never get my point across, so I give up.

Shoot and be happy.

Spence

 

[George]

op:

If you would take your own advice, turn off the computer and go do some shooting, these threads wouldn't bother you so.

Spence

 

[azmntman]

OH SPENCE! Lighten up. I am enjoying this thread immensely :haha:

and I CANNOT go shooting cuz Big Brother has closed the entire forest to shooting. I believe if caught in the forest now with our extreme fire danger I would not get my one phone call till November sometime :nono:

 

[Gene L]

I think I can never get my point across, so I give up.

Shoot and be happy.

Spence

What is your point, exactly? I seem to have forgotten.

 

[azmntman]

:slap:

 

[Black Hand]

Less powder and a slower ball means you have to aim higher to lob the ball into the zero.

There is a basic misunderstanding here, I think. If you change the powder charge without changing the sights, the gun is no longer sighted in at 100 yards. Then, if you want to hit that same 100 yard target at the same spot, you will of course have to aim higher or lower.

Forget about hitting the same point on the target. Change the powder charge but still use the same sight picture to shoot at the target. If you increased the charge the ball will hit high. If you lowered the charge, the ball will hit low.

Spence

While what you said is basically right, it's not relevant. I said specifically with a 100 yard zero, regardless of the charge. The zero is the constant, not the powder charge. You can hit a 100 yard target with 40 grains of powder in a 50 caliber if you zero it in. You're changing the parameters to suit your argument. I thought I emphasized that constant (saying it twice) but I may not.

What we have been saying is relevant. Once again, if nothing but the powder charge is changed (increased in this case), the ball will impact higher on the target. Or in your words, the only parameter that is different is the powder charge. We ARE NOT re-zeroing...if a sight picture/zero setting results in a low hit at a particular charge, increasing the powder charge (and NOTHING ELSE) will elevate the point of impact.

Yes, but you're abandoning your argument to make some sort of obvious point that doesn't relate to anything I can see that's been covered so far. ZERO is 100 yards. Same sight picture, same etc. It's the constant here, not the powder charge or anything else. It's where the ball impacts at closer range (where it naturally prints higher) that is my point, not where it impacts at 100, since that is the given zero.

I honestly think you're in denial of your past posts.

Please go back and read the posts again as I have said the same thing several ways and have not changed anything (but the way I've said the same thing). Again, NOTHING IS CHANGED BUT THE POWDER CHARGE - Distance from target, sight picture, elevation, phase of the moon, how you hold your tongue, etc. have NOT CHANGED. In this case, increasing your charge increases POI, while decreasing your charge will lower POI.

Now take you latest example and move down-range to the target at the original 100 yards. Increasing the charge increases the amplitude of the parabolic arch serving to extend the parabola which results in the bullet hitting higher on the target. Yes, at a shorter distance the bullet will impact higher, but it will also do the same thing at 100 yards (the original zero distance) because the bullet travels higher and farther by increasing the charge.

 

[Black Hand]

Phet simulator of ballistics:
Smallest parabola - 10m/s and then increased by 2m/s for each successive shot (12, 14 & 16). If you look at the 14 & 16m/s, you can see that the 14m/s hits the target but the 16m/s has a greater amplitude to the parabolic arch of the projectile and the projectile is higher at the distance of the target and travels further. Higher initial velocity (due to an increased powder charge) without changing the angle of the barrel translates to a higher POI at the target distance:


Download the simulator here and play with it yourself (Lab).

 

[Mr. Troll]

that's great I love it! more fun than pinball!

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have also heard of lowering the powder charge to raise impact and from too many credible sources to discount it

"heard" in this game is as reliable as taking investment advice from a drunk in a bar that has frayed shirt cuffs.
Yes, friends and mentors are valuable but there are a lot of guys out there with crazy notions. That is one of those crazy notions, IMHO.

 

[CheckSix]

I stay away from bars that have frayed shirt cuffs.

 

[azmntman]

I just stay away from bars. As for dress....hehehe...one of my big joys in life is to dress "down". Now if (when) I win powerball I will truly shock some as I will dress down much further, say a very old loin cloth? It's amusing having folks that earn wayyy less than me look down there noses at me cuz I'm so dang comfortable :haha:

Powerball= Buy original Flinter in good shape and dress in loin cloth and have fun. Wife really struggles with this at times, she'll come around though :grin: