T/C Hawken Rifle Changes

Discussion in 'Percussion Rifles' started by Urban Coyote, Dec 1, 2019.

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  1. Dec 1, 2019 #1

    Urban Coyote

    Urban Coyote

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    T/C Hawken rifles appear to have gone through a number of changes over the years, barrel wedge and lock bolt escutcheons surface mounted rather than inlet, clean out screws discontinued, sight changes, hammer configuration changes, stock shape and perhaps some others.

    Are there "better than other" versions of these guns? Do early guns bring a premium? I think I've heard early guns used outsource barrels, Sharon perhaps?

    Any info you folks might have would be appreciated.
     
  2. Dec 1, 2019 #2

    Dibbuk

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    Speaking from personal experience, I have had half a dozen or so various TC rifles, both old and new, I have not seen much difference as far as accuracy is concerned. I will say that the inlaid escutcheons look nicer than the surface mount, if for no other reason than that they gave more consistent barrel wedge pressure.
     
  3. Dec 1, 2019 #3

    Buzzard II

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    I think most shot about the same, some better than others, but changes were probably done to appease the bean counters. Sharon and a couple others made barrels early on. Load development has to play the big role.
     
  4. Dec 2, 2019 #4

    AntiqueSledMan

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    I know at some point they switched to a shorter nipple. Totally replaced the original with the shorter version, but original spec. nipples are made by Treso in Ampco.
     
  5. Dec 3, 2019 #5

    Cowboy

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    The TC Hawken went through various changes in its production history. Nothing that had effected its accuracy as has already been mentioned.

    Most of the changes were cosmetic in nature. Listed below are some of these that I’m aware of?

    1. The earliest model had an iron trigger guard. Was then switched to brass. Not sure of the year?

    2. Stock change in the comb area. The early models had a more pronounced comb where it meets the wrist of the stock.

    3. one screw nose cap vs two screw nose cap. Again, not sure of year change?

    4. Lock bolt escutcheon. Old type had a lip that was sunk into stock to help secure it in place. New type escutcheon had a flat base. Newer type was also slightly taller vs old type.

    5. Tang on older model had three screw holes vs two on later type tang. The center screw hole on old type tang was for a peep sight if desired?

    6. Furniture which includes: butt plate, trigger guard, nose cap, thimble’s, and lock bolt escutcheon are minutely beefier on later model’s.

    7. Breech plug clean out screw absent on newer models.

    8. Rear sight? Three variations that I’m aware of.

    9. Front sight? Two variations that I’m also aware of.

    10. Stamping’s on barrel? Older barrels didn’t have black powder warning stamping’s. Also known as pre warning barrels. Older barrels had various symbols stamped on bottom flat: Heart, Maltese Cross, Star, Letter M with circle around it. These are stamping’s that I’ve personally seen. Not sure what these stamping’s signify? Have heard two different schools of thought. Inspectors stamp, or out sourced barrel from a different manufacturer contracted by TC.

    11. Later model barrel also has the word HAWKEN stamped on the right upper flat.

    12. Hammer spur change.

    13. Tang bolt closest to breech actually screws into trigger guard on later models.

    14. Quick Load Accurizor (QLA) is offered on their later model barrel.

    In closing: As you can see, there’s been various changes through TC Hawken’s evolution from start to end date of manufacture.

    Respectfully, Cowboy
     
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  6. Dec 3, 2019 #6

    N.Y. Yankee

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    Thanks much for posting that!
     
  7. Dec 4, 2019 #7

    bubba.50

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    Another fine post by Cowboy. He’s done his research and really knows these old guns. I’ll try to add a tidbit or two to a few of his points.

    1. The Hawken came out in 1970 and only had the case-colored guard the first year. These early guns have a 4-digit serial number. Don’t know exactly how many but mine had a 4000’s number and by the 7000’s they had switched to brass.

    2. Besides the high comb, the very early stocks also had 1/2 inch longer pull.

    4. The earliest guns had a smaller fully inlet escutcheon like Lyman still uses. Then came the variations Cowboy listed.

    5. The first few years the tangs were two-hole as no-one made peeps for them ‘til the guns got popular. Then they were D&T until TC or S&W or whoever started cutting corners.

    7. The so-called “clean-out” screw was actually just a byproduct of the breechplug manufacturin’. People were boogerin’ them up so much they changed to the blind hole on the backside of the plug to cut ddown on repair work.

    And lastly, as I said, Cowboy has done is reseaarch and if you look at his posts on some of threads wwhere this topic has already been discussed you can learn even more.
     
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  8. Dec 4, 2019 #8

    Cowboy

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    I appreciate bubba.50’s kind words but anyone who’s been around this forum long enough knows that he’s the real authority when it comes to these TC rifles regardless of model.

    Thank you.

    Respectfully, Cowboy
     
  9. Dec 5, 2019 #9

    ugly old guy

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    Please forgive me, but I gotta ask ... What the heck is a "Quick Load Accurizer" ("QLA")?

    From what you discribe, mine is a "later" model. ...
    Tang not drilled for a tang sight (daRn it), tang screw secures the trigger guard ...
     
  10. Dec 5, 2019 #10

    bubba.50

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    The first inch of the bore is bored out to groove diameter supposedly as an aid to start conical bullets straighter thus increasing accuracy. That’s the theory anyway. Most people, if they have an opinion at all, donn’t like it. It’s never affected me one way or the other.

    As for the tang, it’s a pretty simple job to D&T one 8x32 hole even with a hand drill.
     
  11. Dec 5, 2019 #11

    Cowboy

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    4A66D82D-58AC-4138-9698-5B0D77AFB8B5.jpeg
     
  12. Dec 5, 2019 #12

    ugly old guy

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    Thankee ! :)
    I'm pleased to say my Hawken's barrel ain't got that gimick. :)
     
  13. Dec 7, 2019 #13

    Barrie Dale

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    My 45 cal Senaca does not have it either. I am glad it does not.
     
  14. Dec 7, 2019 #14

    Cowboy

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    I personally never seen the Seneca nor the Cherokee with the QLA. I do know the Renegade and Hawken offered it. That would be a good question for bubba.50 to answer. He’d definitely know.

    Anyway, like bubba,I’ve never experienced any problems what so ever shooting with a QLA barrel. I’ve personally found it to be extremely easy to load PRB with QLA. No short starter is necessary if you use one that is?

    Lastly, Here are a few pics of a TC Hawken Kit that I built about 11 years ago. It’s the later model with QLA. This kit came with an already blued barrel and no K prefix with the serial number.

    I also changed out the new style hammer for the earlier style. I personally didn’t like the looks of the bent back spur design that the new style hammer has. Also changed out the adjustable rear sight for a fixed buckhorn style. Changed out the front bead type sight for their earlier model partridge type.

    Respectfully, Cowboy

    DF0134C9-8D6D-428D-89C1-3B56F153CDE0.jpeg D678A76E-F559-468F-861A-786D5FB9BCAE.jpeg DE975C26-6670-415B-914F-DA5C336592A7.jpeg 77BE0095-907E-4CE9-AA12-52242B1810DE.jpeg 74BDACA8-4768-4A96-9A91-D96DEE9B632D.jpeg C94FD92A-7994-425E-8552-F7DA95447FA0.jpeg
     
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  15. Dec 7, 2019 #15

    AntiqueSledMan

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    I never knew that was an option, would make it easier to load a Maxi Ball for sure.
    As far as a gimmick, I have a friend who wanted me to bore his .45 ACP to just over bullet diameter all but the first 1-1/2", claiming this would increase his velocity and the 1-1/2" rifling would give him all the spin required to hold his bullet stable. I declined to bore it for him, as I didn't want to get involved.

    AntiqueSledMan.
     
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  16. Dec 7, 2019 #16

    30coupe

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    Sounds like a wise decision on your part. :thumb:
     
  17. Dec 7, 2019 #17

    Grenadier1758

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    The T/C QLA is one of those examples of the difference between theory and practice.

    In theory the relief of the QLA would allow a T/C maxi-ball to be easily loaded in the bore and perfectly centered on the lands. The QLA would let one also start a patched round ball perfectly centered on the lands.

    In practice the reduced diameter bands of the maxi-ball didn't align perfectly, so the base was slightly damaged and you can guess the results. Things didn't fare too well for the patched round ball either. The lands were sharp where the patch entered the rifled bore. Guess what, patches were cut and there on many threads on this forum that point out all the problems with gas cutting will do to increase group size.

    Bottom line on the QLA, it wasn't an improvement. It should reduce the value of the gun.
     
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  18. Dec 7, 2019 #18

    Cowboy

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    I have to respectfully disagree with your comments in my case.

    I’ve personally never experienced cut patches that you’re referring to shooting PRB.

    I can’t comment on shooting conical’s though? I don’t shoot them.

    I own several other TC Hawken and Renegade rifle’s without QLA. I’ve personally noticed no difference shooting ball in respect to accuracy or patch integrity with the QLA barrel?

    I can only base my experience on shooting mine that has QLA.

    From my personal experience I have to respectfully agree to disagree with your statement at least when it comes to shooting patched ball in my case.

    Respectfully, Cowboy
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2019
  19. Dec 7, 2019 #19

    BigAl52

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    I just bought a new in the box Foxridge outfitters custom Hawken that has a 1 in 66 barrel in the box. When I bought it I didnt pay attention to the fact that it had a QLA barrel. While Im no expert barrel man I did some research on the barrel and the QLA. I havent shot the gun yet and dont know when I will. It has some really nice figured wood and the hardware is not brass like the normal Hawkens are. It also has no patchbox. At any rate after reading some of the issues with the QLA I found through trial and error playing with a patch and round ball that some of the claims with loading a round ball to be not true. Seems as though they claimed it was hard to keep the ball centered in the patch. I fine it easier. I also examined the muzzle where the rifling starts. It looks smooth as could be and I dont see anyway a patch could be damaged in mine at all. Al
     
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  20. Dec 8, 2019 #20

    rbrown1950

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    As a shooter of the TC from long time ago, I did try to find out about the marks on the bottom of the barrel. Now this was back in the 70's , and they told me that the Maltese Cross was Sharron barrels. Loved shooting that barrel with patched round ball, it shot them just fine.
     

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