Something wicked this way comes...

[StevePrice2]

Well, I just couldn't keep the cat in the bag any longer. A few weeks ago I approached one of our own members who happens to forge steel into various lethal shapes and asked him if he takes commissions.

Here's his answer according to my design and desire.

It should be in my hands in short order and I'll craft the handle for it. Perhaps something like this.

If it turns out half as nice as the first image, :hmm: I'll be asking for a second and a third and a fourth and a.....
:shocked2:

Steve

 

[paulvallandigham]

That will make an interesting artifact. However, carrying that might get you arrested, so be careful where and how you display it. :thumbsup:

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

I like that. It's not your run of the mill type we normally see. I'd like to see it when it is finished. :thumbsup:

 

[omarick1948]

Looks real good!....Just don't let your better half find it, when she gets real mad at you!.. :shocked2:

Rick

 

[Rancocas]

That certainly is a lethal looking weapon, but my question is - why?
I'm just speculating, but here are my thoughts.

It appears to be basically a dagger or spear point mounted on a tomahawk handle. It won't work well as a throwing weapon because it is not likely to stick. Also, if it is used as it was apparently designed to hack into living flesh, it seems to me that it would cut and probably sink deep into the target, but there would likely be some difficulty in pulling it back out. Therefore, one hit, and if that wasn't immediately lethal, the weapon would possibly be torn from the user's grip before he could retrieve it. A second hit would be unlikely.
Plus, of course, the weapon is useless as a dual purpose camp tool.
It's appearance is formidable, however it is impractical IMO.

 

[preston cook]

:shake: that seems a little unfair ,your assessment of the club is ridiculous,i would think the intended idea was just to make a different club.not hit anyone with it. :nono:

 

[Rod Lassey]

A spontoon tomahawk, eh? There's an article on them in the Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly, vol. 36, no. 3. While lethal looking, they aren't all that well balanced, and probably were intended to look nasty rather than use as an actual weapon---although some were undoubtably used as such. One of those 'I gotta have it' things, then and now. Many of the early ones had rather outsized blades on short handles--in some cases the handle was no longer than the blade. By the late 19th century, they were sometimes made of very light sheet steel---see MOFT Quarterly vol. 43, no. 2. These were truly just for show, being useless as a weapon. They seemed to pass in and out of fashion, Meriwether Lewis calling them the 'oalder fassion' in the winter of 1804-05, being eclipsed among the Mandan & Hidatsa at that time by the Missouri War Hatchet, an equally unhandy design. They remained popular, however among the Crow, and the Shoshone are the ones with the really light sheet iron ones by the end of the 19th century.

That said, your version looks good.

Rod

 

[LaBonte]

That certainly is a lethal looking weapon, but my question is - why?
I'm just speculating, but here are my thoughts.

It appears to be basically a dagger or spear point mounted on a tomahawk handle. It won't work well as a throwing weapon because it is not likely to stick. Also, if it is used as it was apparently designed to hack into living flesh, it seems to me that it would cut and probably sink deep into the target, but there would likely be some difficulty in pulling it back out. Therefore, one hit, and if that wasn't immediately lethal, the weapon would possibly be torn from the user's grip before he could retrieve it. A second hit would be unlikely.
Plus, of course, the weapon is useless as a dual purpose camp tool.
It's appearance is formidable, however it is impractical IMO.

With respect you're post is perhaps good opinion, but has nothing to do with the historical facts which aways trumps speculation. Spontoon bladed hawks such as this are well documented, many often looking like a sharpened fleur d'alys. Lewis and Clark noted them and even sketched one calling it the old French style. The name spontoon is a version of the French espontoon, another single purpose weapon, which was a short spear with a similar shaped head.
Dual purpose? Somethings were and still are made for a single purpose - in this case warfare.

A nice version of the genre IMO.... :thumbsup:

here are just a few pics of original spontoons which were often made as pipe hawks - and no not all are as long as Steve's but the first one is close in length and these are just the tip of the iceberg so to speak:

BTW - for those interested in tomahawks of all types the TRADE AXE & TOMAHAWK COLLECTORS ASSOCIATION site is back up and running http://tatcalite.tripod.com/id2.htm

 

[jimmytheshank]

Ive seen tommy's with this style head before. And they work allright. :shocked2:
Usually something like that is mostly for re-enacting purposes, but it is indeed a DEADLY weapon. One hit with that is all you need. If what you hit with it doesnt die right away, the trauma from the wound will definitely cause extreme sanguination ( heavy bleeding), and at the very least, leave a gaping wound prone to infection. These style tommy's were formidable against light armor such as the conquistador's used to use, and are definitely useful against bare flesh. if you came across a mad hog, or rabid wolf or something like that, it would make a great defensive weapon. especially if you dont have a back-up pistol when your hunting.

But I have to say, apart from all that, that tommy justs scream's "Dont mess with me". :nono: :thumbsup:
You got the makings of a nice tommy there bud. :bow:

 

[Rancocas]

:shake: that seems a little unfair ,your assessment of the club is ridiculous,i would think the intended idea was just to make a different club.not hit anyone with it. :nono:

What is a club for, if not to hit someone with it? Golf, maybe?
Of course I don't think he intends to go on a murderous rampage with this thing! We're talking reenacting here. Make believe.
This is all for show, but these are historical weapons. I just question the practicality and effectiveness of a spontoon tomahawk. Are they as formidable as they look, or is their appearance deceiving?

Others have mentioned spontoons. I am well aware of them, and I acknowledge that they can inflict a severe wound. I think they date back to the middle ages and were first conceived to punch holes through body armor.
I agree that it is a impressive looking weapon, however I still question how effective a spontoon tomahawk is when compared with a more conventional design, or even just a camp hatchet.
I speculate that if you hit a side of beef with a spontoon tomahawk, then the weapon will require two hands to pull it back out.
I know that if I was in battle and a tomahawk was my only weapon, I wouldn't want one that stuck in the body of a defeated enemy while other enemies were rapidly closing in on me.
That is one point in favor of a mace, or one of the ball type war clubs. They broke bones, and crushed skulls, but they didn't stick. They remained in the user's hand, ready to use again.

Anyone want to test the merits of each and draw a logical conclusion?

 

[jimmytheshank]

I think if we started putting these weapons to the test, we'd all end up on death row. If your talking about the practicality of this hawk for everyday camping, :hmm: I think it would be interesting to see you try to hammer a stake down. :shocked2: It would definitely make opening a can of beans for supper a breeze, compared to a mace. :grin: Golfing with it would be funny as hell to watch I think. At least, nobody would dare try to ask you to hurry up. :surrender: As far as a weapon, yeah, it would hurt. Maybe you would get it stuck in your enemy and not be able to use it again, but you can rest assured that guy has lost interest in you. :haha:
It's a pretty sweet tommyhawk, and not a bad choice IMHO for whatever you use it for. As far as being useful in the battlefield, well, if ya'll can find an eyewitness to say that the weapon wasnt very good in a battle. Then my :hatsoff: to you. :rotf:

 

[Rancocas]

I think if we started putting these weapons to the test, we'd all end up on death row. If your talking about the practicality of this hawk for everyday camping, :hmm: I think it would be interesting to see you try to hammer a stake down. :shocked2: It would definitely make opening a can of beans for supper a breeze, compared to a mace. :grin: Golfing with it would be funny as hell to watch I think. At least, nobody would dare try to ask you to hurry up. :surrender: As far as a weapon, yeah, it would hurt. Maybe you would get it stuck in your enemy and not be able to use it again, but you can rest assured that guy has lost interest in you. :haha:
It's a pretty sweet tommyhawk, and not a bad choice IMHO for whatever you use it for. As far as being useful in the battlefield, well, if ya'll can find an eyewitness to say that the weapon wasnt very good in a battle. Then my :hatsoff: to you. :rotf:

There is a TV show that does just what I'm suggesting.
They compare the different weapons used by various warriors throughout history and pit one warrior against another, such as viking against samarai, or Zulu against Roman. Through testing the effectiveness of the different weapons a computer than comes up with a winner. I think the show is called "Deadlyist Warrior", or something similar to that.

All I'm saying is that I don't think a spontoon tomahawk is/was a very good weapon.

 

[jimmytheshank]

Ive seen that show. Computers vs. REAL hand-to-hand combat just dont mix. Well, whatever. I think he's got a nice tommyhawk project. Thankfully, we dont have to worry whether it's a good weapon or not. Last I saw, a good M-16 is what usually decides the battle in the right hands nowadays. :wink:

 

[JamesG]

Glad everyone likes it was a chore to forge it.

 

[jimmytheshank]

Ya did good James. Of course, now I aint gonna sleep tonight knowing that things around. :shocked2:

 

[StevePrice2]

James - thanks for chiming in. Looks like quite a bit of commentary on both this one you made for me and spontoon hawks in general.

I apppreciate ALL the comments about it. The handle may or my not be exactly as the one pictured. That one was photoshopped off an original.

Here's a brave looking proud with his spontoon hawk. No toy hawk there. I estimate the blade length to be 7-8 inches minus the bowl and the handle being 26 or so inches maybe more. Certainly enough leverage in that handle to un-stick it from whatever it hit.

Anyway, I'm getting what I want and will post it again when it is finished.

Steve

 

[jimmytheshank]

You gonna put some decorative tacks on it too? Looks pretty good on that pic. I'd recommend a long curly maple handle by the way. A standard 16-18" handle might be too short. Hickory's the norm, but curly maple handled hawks just look awesome. Have fun with it, and wear it with pride. Just dont try to drive stakes with it. :rotf:

 

[Rod Lassey]

The shorter blade on the one he's carrying, coupled with the longer handle, would make it much more effective. Remember that the blade described in the MOFT article was around 15 inches long, as I recall. Lewis noted that the ones in the hands of the Mandans and Hidatsas had handles only about 14-15 inches, as well. Long blade, short handle, makes for an unhandy weapon. These things also evolved over time, too. With a handle about the length you photoshopped on, it will be much more useful. Mind you, it'll have only one real use :wink: Wouldn't mind making one myself, sometime. Good work!

Rod

Ps. The gent in the photo is Crow, I'm guessing? They had a thing for spontoon tomahawks.

 

[pichou]

BTW - for those interested in tomahawks of all types the TRADE AXE & TOMAHAWK COLLECTORS ASSOCIATION site is back up and running http://tatcalite.tripod.com/id2.htm

 

[omarick1948]

Steve,
To get back to topic and the REAL reason you are showing us your hawk, is to let us unknowing and not schooled in the different types of tomahawks, see your fine craftsmanship. Personally, I don't care if it is called a tomahawk, war club, spontoon, spittoon, cartoon or baboon! You didn't show it to us, to get it judged or criticised! Some of the above comments is one of the reasons, some of our forum members have left the forum or just keep quiet and don't offer their positive input!

I thank you for showing another one of your very nice projects to us!

:thumbsup: :hatsoff: