Siler Lock Appearance modifications

[Micah Clark]

This came up in another thread of a person who has a LH slier lock which is common in many LH kits that he modified to look less german and more early colonial or english, like for a fowler.

I had thought of this in a Chamber PA fowler kit, which RH is his open face lock, like an L&R Queen Anne . . but in LH is his large siler. . great lock, but not as aesthetic in a fowler as his colonial or open face lock.

I had wondered about fling the edges of the faceplate, frizzen and hammer to round one to look something more like a fowler lock.

It may sound crazy . . but has anyone actually done this ??? (Pics welcome). Here's a link to a guy who has done this with pics of what he does to a slier to make it less german and more english.
http://toadhallrifleshop.com/lock-mod/

 

[dave_person]

Hi Mac,
The big problem you will have is that the lock is already inlet so you cannot reshape the edges of the plate. The lock in your link is a bit of a mismatch. His plate looks a little like a mid-18th century English plate and then he reshapes the flintcock to look like late flint era. I am not sure he really knew what English styles looked like over time. Despite the popularity of round-faced locks with many fowler builders today, the English largely used flat-faced locks on guns after 1760 or so except some cheaper livery, export, or military guns. Many fowlers built in America prior to and after the Rev War also used English, French, or German styled flat-faced locks. A Siler could be made to look like a French or English lock but the plate edges have to be reshaped. The tail needs to be more rounded but still come to a point, the pan should be rounded, and the front of the lock narrowed a little. The flintcock needs to be thinned and the curves more rounded and graceful. There is not a lot you can do with the frizzen. The toe needs more curl and the big concavity in the front needs to be filled in. The heavy bevel on the plate needs to be thinned a little. I think, Mac, that the easiest and most effort-effective thing you can do is to simply thin and reshape the flintcock making it more graceful. That would go a long way to making the lock look better.

dave

 

[Donny]

In the article he does not say "make it look like an English lock". But he sez "more like an English lock."

.
There is a difference.

 

[MSW]

it seems that the lockplate shape is an issue ... perhaps this will help?
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/imgPart/lock-os-fl-rh_0.jpg

(large Siler w/ a rectangular plate - you shape it your own requirements ) ... sorry I can't make pictures go where I want ... old computer ... dumb owner
:cursing: :redface:

 

[galamb]

Can you modify it - absolutely.

On page 107 of "The Gunsmith of Grenville County" Peter goes into some detail about how he turns a Siler into a very close copy of a John Armstrong lock.

Now, I'll give you that's not turning it into an English lock, but the process would be the same. As long as you don't really "upset the guts" which would jigger up the function of, you can go "pretty wild" on your cosmetic modifications unless you are trying to make it fit into a pre-carve.

 

[Micah Clark]

These are great thoughts and points guys - thanks !!

As for the Builders lock w the square plate one can shape .. Nice idea but I'm not Bob Vila ... That's too intimidating.

I understand that the Siler edges cannot be changed. I thought that perhaps filing the bevel edge rolling it into the plate as a curve and doing the same with the hammer.

The Pan it seems could be filed more round to remove the angles ... And the frizzen front flattened some

 

[Artificer]

Mac,

Not sure if this will be helpful or not, but here are a couple of links showing flint cocks that may give you some ideas on reshaping yours.

https://www.peterdyson.co.uk/acatalog/English_guns___rifle_cocks.html
http://www.blackleyandson.com/acatalog/Flintcocks_English_Flat_Face.html

Gus

 

[Micah Clark]

Can you modify it - absolutely.

On page 107 of "The Gunsmith of Grenville County" Peter goes into some detail about how he turns a Siler into a very close copy of a John Armstrong lock.

Now, I'll give you that's not turning it into an English lock, but the process would be the same. As long as you don't really "upset the guts" which would jigger up the function of, you can go "pretty wild" on your cosmetic modifications unless you are trying to make it fit into a pre-carve.

Thanks for that tip - I have that book - thinking of a precarve though - JC pen Fowler in LH

Thanks - good thoughts !!!

 

[Micah Clark]

Can you modify it - absolutely.

On page 107 of "The Gunsmith of Grenville County" Peter goes into some detail about how he turns a Siler into a very close copy of a John Armstrong lock.

Now, I'll give you that's not turning it into an English lock, but the process would be the same. As long as you don't really "upset the guts" which would jigger up the function of, you can go "pretty wild" on your cosmetic modifications unless you are trying to make it fit into a pre-carve.

Thanks for that tip - I have that book - thinking of a precarve though - JC pen Fowler in LH

Thanks - good thoughts !!!

 

[rich pierce]

Look at the Chambers Early Ketland lock as an example of a flat faced English lock. Think about the differences in pan and cock shape between this and the Siler. There's not so much you can do with the lockplate on a finished Siler lock.

 

[Staggerwing]

I had the same issue. I actually spoke to Jim Chambers about this and he said that there are those who have taken the siler and filed it to make it look more round faced. But as others have said, you are going to have to get into the edges of the lock and I wasn't going to do that. I took the life sized pic of the Queen Anne lock from TOW and compared it to the large siler and thought it would cover the preinlet lock area on the Chambers Pa Fowler so I bought one hoping to use it. Unfortunately, it is more curved and there were gaps. So,I quit worrying about it, used the large siler and put the Queen Anne back for a future project! :surrender:

 

[Staggerwing]

Left handed lives matter!!! :rotf: :blah:

 

[Micah Clark]

Look at the Chambers Early Ketland lock as an example of a flat faced English lock. Think about the differences in pan and cock shape between this and the Siler. There's not so much you can do with the lockplate on a finished Siler lock.

Good idea . . . the Early Kentland has a hammer that looks like the Siler with other parts more like the round-face or Colonial . . .

A file could be taken to the Siler's angled Frizen and the Pan, it seems to me, and those parts rounded to look more like the Kentland and those other two.

 

[Micah Clark]

Left handed lives matter!!! :rotf: :blah:

Right on . it's a conspiracy of da Man against southpaws !!