Set Trigger Operation

[mahkagari]

Managed to work around my broken tap issue and got the tang bolts through to attach the trigger. Now I'm checking my trigger operation.

I can't pull the hammer back, even to half-cock, without pulling the set trigger. Otherwise, the set trigger is pushing up against the pin enough to release the spring and it doesn't catch at half or full cock.

If I put it at half-cock, it operates correctly, i.e. the hammer won't release no matter what triggers are pulled.

Is that normal operation or do I need to adjust the set trigger so it's not pushing on the spring?

 

[Zonie]

As I've mentioned before, parts used to build muzzleloading rifles should be thought of as just rough stock that will need to be modified to work in any gun they are used in/on.

The problem your having is, the material on top of the front trigger that pushes against the arm of the sear in the lock needs to be removed to give the sear arm room to rest at its normal position.

To get in the ballpark, remove the trigger assembly from the stock.

Put the hammer or cock at the half cock position.

Put the trigger assembly back into the stock using just your fingers. It won't go all the way in because the front trigger blade will hit the sear arm.

Remove the trigger assembly and use a fine tooth flat file to file just a little bit of the top of the trigger blade (as I call it) and try the trigger in the stock.

Keep on doing this until the trigger plate fully seats out on the wood and the front trigger has just a little bit of slop or looseness. In other words, you can move the front trigger just enough to detect.

Now, put the hammer/cock in the full cock position.
It might work fine with the new trigger blades new height or it might not.
You can tell when it's not because the trigger will not have any looseness at all.

If there is no slop or looseness with the hammer at full cock, continue to file a bit more off of the top of the front trigger blade.

After you've got things this far, now is the time to put the bolt in and tighten it.

This usually moves the trigger plate up just a bit so that slop or looseness you worked so hard to get might not still be there.

If it is not, continue to file, assemble and test, disassemble, file, assemble and test as needed until the front trigger has just a little bit of looseness when the screw is tight, with the lock at both the half cock and full cock position.

Note: Usually, the sear arm will be at a slightly different position when the lock is at half cock and when the lock is at full cock so it's important to work towards getting the trigger to be slightly loose in both lock positions.

Have fun. :grin:

 

[Len Graves]

Zonie is absolutely correct. Follow his instructions. The reason for this clearance between trigger bar and sear bar is twofold. First , we. Must take into account changes in dimensions of wood because of humidity, moisture. second, if the gun is ever repaired the trigger plate may settle in or the smith might tighten the screws tighter than it was originally. Take your time you'll get it.

 

[necchi]

I can't pull the hammer back, even to half-cock, without pulling the set trigger.

The rear cam is driven by the leaf spring of the trigger. Sometimes that leaf spring is set too tight driving the cam too high while it's "un-set".
You can change that un-set height by adjusting the tension.

This is probably not your trigger but they all work much the same. You can see below how I "dished" out the trigger cam so it wouldn't ride on the sear arm.
You still need some tension on that spring to give it enough power to trip the sear,, it's an adjustment that needs to be tuned.
Otherwise your trouble is common when the trigger is set too deep.

 

[rowdyjoe]

Thanks guys. This thread helped me resolve the issue with my set trigger. My rear trigger would not set the front one and would not move at all when the the gun was cocked. A simple adjustment of the leaf spring and positioning of the leaf/blade did the trick.

Ooooops, spoke to soon. I know how it's supposed to work now as it was working outside the gun. After installation, the rear trigger causes the hammer to fall. Back to the drawing board.

Garry

 

[rowdyjoe]

Hmmmm ??

I loosened the tang screw a tad and now the rear trigger works fine. Something is interfering with the trigger when the tang screw is tightened all the way. Wonder if a shim under the trigger frame would help the problem?

 

[Zonie]

Most likely, the tang screw is pulling the trigger plate, along with the triggers, upward when it is tightened.

You can either install a shim between the trigger plate and the stock or, you can simply file maybe 1/64" off the top of the blade that is on top of the rear trigger.

If it was mine, I would file some material off of the top.

That blade on the rear trigger doesn't have to be close to the locks sear arm in order for it to work.

It works because the rear trigger spring accelerates the rear trigger and its blade, upward, to a high speed.

The high speed coupled with the mass of the blade is enough to knock the lock sear out of the full cock notch.

 

[rowdyjoe]

If you've been following my posts on this rifle you've seen that I've opened a can of worms. I broke the sear spring by being too forceful when doing a push-off test. While trouble shooting that, I realized the rear trigger spring was broken in half at the mounting hole. It has a crescent shape under the mounting screw and when the is tightened to put pressure on the rear trigger leaf, the spring slides forward and interferes with the leaf. That's why the set trigger won't work as it should. Deer Creek doesn't show any in stock but, I emailed them asking if they had some. If I can't get another spring, I'll need to figure out a way to keep the spring from sliding forward.

 

[necchi]

If they don't have on e check ebay using words like;
CVA HAWKEN 50 CAL MUZZLELOADER DOUBLE SET TRIGGER

 

[rowdyjoe]

Checked ebay and no soap on a spring. I did find one CVA trigger assembly and placed a bid. It would be nice to have a spare.
There were a couple of others but, they are for Investarms rifles. Do you think they would fit?

I've ordered a trigger assembly from Deer Creek and it should be here next week.
The sear spring I bought from them has been shipped and should be here by Sat.

 

[necchi]

Investarms will not fit in CVA/Traditions.

 

[rowdyjoe]

OK, thanks.