Remove breech plug or never remove breech plug

[dmjung]

I'm getting ready to start building my first flintlock (Jim Chambers kit). First step is to start inletting the barrel into the stock.

The first three sources I look at say remove the breech plug or show it removed. (Turpin dvd, House dvd, and Recreating the American Longrifle book.)

TOTW website and various other comments I've come across say to never remove the breechplug.

Is this a Ford/Chevy issue or remove while building, don't remove aftwards or ???

--David

 

[fleener]

do you need to remove it? do you want to remove it? then remove it.

Make sure you have a witness mark to make sure you get it back right.

Also, you need to make sure you dont bugger it up by removing it. Have a big enough wrench or bar to have the leverage to remove it.

I have removed several, but always for a reason.

snapper

 

[rabjr]

I'm getting ready to start building my first flintlock (Jim Chambers kit). First step is to start inletting the barrel into the stock.

The first three sources I look at say remove the breech plug or show it removed. (Turpin dvd, House dvd, and Recreating the American Longrifle book.)

TOTW website and various other comments I've come across say to never remove the breechplug.

Is this a Ford/Chevy issue or remove while building, don't remove aftwards or ???

--David

Most barrels have a witness mark, if not use a chisel and make one on the bottom flat/breech plug. As long as you have one you can always screw the breech plug back to the right place. Removing it helps in inletting and installing a vent liner if you plan to put one in. Just make sure to use the bottom of the breech plug to use as leverage and unscrew, don't marr the top of the tang. It's really not all that difficult but it can take some leverage to get the plug back to the witness mark sometimes.

 

[Vaino]

The bbl is inletted w/o the breech plug and it also has to be removed when you install the "White Lightning" TH liner. When the breech plug is out, mark on the lock flat the plug face location so you know how far to set the bbl back, seeing the lock is already inlet. Excellent choice of a "kit" and good luck....Fred

 

[dmjung]

Thanks everyone. The kit is the RK-6 Penn Fowler with a cherry stock. I can see how it would be simpler to do the inletting with the plug out...should be challenge enough being my first and the barrel is part flat sided and part round with a ring at the transition. The barrel/plug already has an index mark so I'm good there.

I don't know if this is an issue I need to address right now or if it will sort itself out as the barrel is inlet and the wood brought to shape around the barrel. It looks like the forearm has a bit of twist/curve in it, even the ramrod appears to have taken up some of the twist. I don't remember it having a problem when I picked it up at Chamber's shop last August...since then it sat in my gun closet taped to the flat board it came with.

 

[Birddog6]

TOTW website and various other comments I've come across say to never remove the breechplug.--David

TOW sells parts, they don't build rifles. I suggest ya stick with the guys that build the rifles & do as they suggest.

I have built quite a few rifles, I have never built one without removing the breechplug, nor would I attempt to do so.

And also, remember the stock & parts in the video are perfect, so the video goes smoothly. Yours may not go as easy, just be patient. Since it is a Chambers parts set, I suggest you call him about the stock warping. Unless it is a very bad warp, it is usually not an issue.
However I try to get the barrel into the stock to prevent warpage on a precarve as soon as I can. I take nylon wire ties & stap the barrel in tightly about every 6" down the length of the barrel, then put it away.
:thumbsup:

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Remove the breech plug ONLY, ONLY, Only, when absolutely necessary. When inletting and installing a touch hole liner are about the two main times I can think of. Other than that there isn't much good reason to go through that. You may want to try lightly coating the threads with a product like "never seize" just in case. Sort of the opposite of Lock Tite.

 

[Birddog6]

Ohhhhhhhhhhh horse pucky........ :rotf: :rotf: When I build a rifle I have the breechplug in & out half a dozen times, especially if I am doing a over-the-comb tang on a Tennessee rifle.

It doesn't hurt a thing. If it is breeched correctly you have a seat, you have an index mark where to go back to, antiseize on the threads, thus there is no wear & tear & it don't hurt a thing if properly done.

I unbreech EVERY barrel I use. You would be amazed of the barrels I have pulled the plugs on & found them not breeched at all, they just thread them & ran the breechplug in to where the flats lined up & file the top flat to the tang. The ONLY barrels I have found in the last 5 years to be correctly breeched are Rice barrels.

 

[mazo kid]

I ordered a swamped premium round-radius Rice barrel last year.....it came with the breechplug fitted, witness-marked, and backed out. Very nice touch, IMO.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

You just proved my point. two main times for removal `(1) inletting and (2) when installing a touch hole liner. And if the threads are done right, they are a tight fit and require some force to turn them in the last few turns.

Glad to see you agree about the anti seize,.

 

[Birddog6]

Well, I guess those other times I take it out are not considered "Main Times" ? :idunno:
But I will tell you this, if you ever build a Tenn. rifle with a 11-12" tang down the wrist, then up & over the comb all the way to the buttplate, You WILL have that breechplug in & out of the rifle more than 2 times, or you will sure be sorry many times you didn't take it out during the build. :rotf: :rotf:

 

[fitter]

He's just another know it all. Don't waste your time!

 

[hotsparks]

I agree with Birdog, unless it's a "patent" (pronounced PIA) removing a breech plug is no big deal, or at least not as much as some try to make it. I used to make my own, now buy them and hand fit. During a fit, and a build that plug may be in and out two dozen times. Over the years I've probably fired 10,000 round balls from those barrels and never lost a one. I even remove the plug maybe once a year for a through bore cleaning and inspection. I do own a couple of "factory" made pieces with patent breeches and don't really mess with those, maybe because I really don't like or shoot them much.
John

 

[Zonie]

The thing about not removing a breech plug, which is mentioned thousands of times on the other areas of the MLF (and others)stems from the fact that many of the manufactures of production guns currently sold will void their warranty it the plug is removed.

Also on many of these factory made guns the plug requires special methods for disassemble, not to mention that if removal is attempted without the proper tooling the finished barrel can be badly damaged. Many factory guns install their breech plug with a LOT more torque than they need to dissuade people from removing them. It's probably a legal issue with them.

That said, the barrels and breech plugs we use when building a gun are not in a finished condition and do not require special methods for taking them apart.
With a vise with padded jaws (brass, bronze or aluminum, NOT wood), and a good 12 inch adjustable wrench removing the breech plug isn't hard to do and as Birddog6 says, it will be done a number of times before the gun is finished.

 

[hotsparks]

That's about what I meant Zonie. As I sit here typing, I'm looking at four racks of six guns each, and only four of those are 'factory' guns, (not to mention pistols)so a warranty isn't much of a concern here. I can understand someone like Mike B., whether he has an implied or express warranty, I'm sure he stands behind everything he builds...to an extent. I'm sure he would balk at a return complaint of a leaky or loose breechplug when there is evidence (say channel-lock gouges) on the plug, and be well within his rights too. Same with a big name manufacturer. But, a well-equiped and careful home craftsman, with forethought and good advice from forums like this should be capable of removing most plugs. I recently bought a "big-name barrel" from an FFL's scrap barrel for $10. Some fool had tried to remove the patent chamber plug without disassembly of the nipple, ect., and yes, there were channel-lock gouges on what was left of the breech-hook. Got what he deserved in my thought. But, Ive seen "home craftsmen" do equilavent to their autos, plumbling, carpentry...you name it. Advice, and study, is what this site is good for. Even after 26 years of building, I still pick up good advive from you guys....in this case, the best would be.."if you don't think you can, don't" (and don't take it to an FFL gunsmith either, 95% won't touch a M/L for some reason).
John

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Birddog. You still aren't comprehending. I said that it is removed for inletting. Didn't say or discuss how many times when inletting. Amazes me how some folks jump in with sarcasm, when they are the ones who aren't understanding the posts.

I've fit breech plugs and inlet more than a few guns. Albeit never a long drawn out tang. Never had to remove the breech plug more than twice when inletting. However after the barrel and tang inletting are finished, the breech plug doesn't come out again. I do inlet the lock after the barrel inlet is finished and before the final tang inletting is finished. That way the touch hole can be done so the breech plug doesn't have to be pulled yet again.

 

[Vaino]

Who cares how many times a breech plug is pulled? Mine are pulled 6-7 times during a build so what's the "big deal" seeing pulling a breech plug isn't "rocket science" and in fact is quite easy. Just don't like to quibble over a minor item of building....Fred

 

[fitter]

Well said! :wink: