Range Report: 6 rounds then the lock broke

[Adui]

Very unhappy camper..

I was at my local range getting some smoke time. I opted to use real black today, over the cheap sub I have. Fired about 4 rounds, maybe 5. The lady on the bench next to me with her significant other commented how she really liked the sound my rifle made so I offered to let her shoot it.

Powder, Patch, Ball; ram it home!
I explained the double set trigger, and then handed he the rifle after capping it. She opted to just squeeze the front trigger. POP!!

Wait what? no boom?! OK, cap again let her go again. POP....

manure...

At this point the range calls a cease fire so now not only am I embarrassed because my baby is being temperamental, but I have to get a range officer involved so I can clear the rifle before they let folks down range.

So after explaining, (fortunately this RO knows muzzle loaders and apparently has one) I pull the clean out screw and trickle some 3F into the drum. I seat the screw cap and fire. She goes BOOM!

After the cease fire is over, everyone is back and the range is hot I pick it up, mention to the young lady she is welcome to try again and prepare to load. I pull the hammer to half cock. No click and she drops back to the nipple.. Hmmm..

Pull it all the way back; no telltale clicks and it drops back down. (I'm of course holding the hammer so it didn't snap on the nipple)

So, I bugger my finger up trying to pull the lock without putting it at half cock. I inspect the lock, not seeing the jagged metal where the sear broke just yet and determine that the fly isn't dropping all the way out of position. (Wrong answer Sherlock!)

At this point I decided I needed more tools than I have so I go ask the RO's who kindly invite me into the range office where there is an abridged version of a gunsmith bench and tools.

I pull the bridle, I unscrew the hammer screw and make a feeble attempt at pulling the tumbler away from the lock plate. At this moment I see the sear is busted...

So I reassemble the lock, sort of.. wrap it in a plastic bag, and head to my bench because my range day is over...

Here is hoping Traditions still stocks the internal parts of the left hand lock I have, (they don't sell this model in lefty any more)

Just venting.. its been an interesting day. Oddly enough I'm not nearly as disappointed as I should be. I'm sort of seeing it as a chance to get hands on with a part of my rifle I've never really explored outside of drawings and schematics..

Before anyone laments the quality of Traditions note:
I've had this rifle for 25+ years.
I have on several occasions forgotten to draw the hammer from half to full cock before tripping the set trigger. I didn't today, but I suspect it had been weakened from the multiple times it has been done..
In short, for what I have its a damn fine rifle that just had a part wear out.

 

[russellshaffer]

Try calling the Gunworks in Oregon. If you haven't been in their store you won't believe all the stuff they have and they have been there a while. I bet they have your piece on a shelf. http://www.thegunworks.com/GunIndex.cfm

541-741-4118

 

[Adui]

Didnt think of that! if thats the little store in Springfield Ive been there about 25 or so years ago! (That be where I bought it!)

 

[nhmoose]

What make?

 

[russellshaffer]

That would be the place. I was in there a couple weeks back to make a deal.Could have spent hours.

 

[Rifleman1776]

'stuff' happens, especially in this game. Sorry yer lock went bad. It is fixable. But....your saying you pulled the clean out screw made me cringe. It is not a clean out screw, just the aftermath of the manufacturing process. Really, the proper way to prime the chamber would have been to pull the nipple then make sure the ball is well seated before trying to fire again. BTW, somebody like L&R might make a quality replacement lock for your rifle. Worth checking out.

 

[Jimbo47]

BTW, somebody like L&R might make a quality replacement lock for your rifle. Worth checking out.

After reading the OP, I immediately thought the same thing. :hmm:
B'sides even if an original replacement last you another 25+ years your eyesight and fingers may not work as good as they are now trying to replace it again, and your grandkids will love you for it!
:haha:

 

[Jumpshot]

I have on several occasions forgotten to draw the hammer from half to full cock before tripping the set trigger. I didn't today, but I suspect it had been weakened from the multiple times it has been done.

This is a new one on me. How does that weaken the sear?

 

[BrownBear]

Bottom line, ALL guns break from time to time. Otherwise there wouldn't be a market for spare parts or jobs for neighborhood gunsmiths. Some break more often than others, but they all do it now and then.

Spout over. Talk to the fine folks in Springfield. If they can't help you, contact Traditions directly as a last resort. CALL, but do not email. Their record for responding to emails is right there with politicians honoring their word. But thankfully they're responsive on the phone.

 

[Adui]

If I read the serial correct it was manufactured in 96, which means I have not owned it as long as I thought, no more than 20-22 years, sorry about the misinformation there!

NHMoose: Traditions, Hawken Woodsman .50.

Rifleman1776 and Jimbo:

Im on a tight budget, so Im hoping to get just the part becase a lock from one of those others will cost upwards of $100 or more, making my ML days wait for a good 6 months to free that much from the budget.

Jumpshot: It has been explained to me by others here that it can damage the lock, and here is why:

When the rifle is at half cock the sear sits in a notch, it cannot trip the lock without either breaking the notch, or breaking the sear.
When a set trigger is tripped, the engaging bar (part name?) is released under spring tension and slaps the sear with significant force to make it release. This force is absorbed by the half cock notch on the tumbler, and the sear at the point it engages said notch.

The sear is hardened metal, but quite thin. That's a bit of pressure to be absorbed by that little sliver of steel.

 

[Adui]

I know things happen, and I'm not terribly disappointed by this, just inconvenienced. I do wonder why you suggest calling VS e-mailing. The person I e-mailed at traditions has a fine record with responding to me promptly. I searched for a replacement stock because the one on it is a bit beat up, and I wanted to try and replace it. This is the person who helped me with that, well sort of. He had to tell me they don't make it in lefty anymore and therefore there are no lefty stocks that would fit my parts available.

As a side note, before coming here this morning I checked my e-mail and found he has already responded, asking for the serial of my rifle, (hence why I checked it and discovered my error in counting years owned) I've responded and he will undoubtedly check and get back to me ASAP.

 

[Adui]

Rifleman1776: I have read all of the exhaustive threads on that "clean out screw". I am aware of the reason it is actually even on the rifle. I am also aware that the common name for it by everyone I've ever heard referring to it is "clean out screw", (even in the schematics of some of the guns if memory serves me.. don't count on that as fact though).

My question however is this: I am also aware of the practice of pulling the nipple VS that screw to trickle popwder in. Why would using that screw make you cringe? the nipple requires a 90 degree turn for the powder to get into the drum channel, making it more difficult to put the small charge in because one needs to pick at it with a nipple pick. The screw on the other hand, is on the end of the drum thereby providing a strait shot into the chamber. This by my estimation is the more efficient method of putting a small charge into the drum for ignition into the main chamber. Since I keep that screw hand tight with choke tube grease on it, it comes out effortlessly, so why would I not use the more efficient method to perform this task?

 

[Jumpshot]

a lock from one of those others will cost upwards of $100 or more

An L&R replacement lock is $140 (+ $12 shipping).

Jumpshot: It has been explained to me by others here that it can damage the lock, and here is why:

When the rifle is at half cock the sear sits in a notch, it cannot trip the lock without either breaking the notch, or breaking the sear.
When a set trigger is tripped, the engaging bar (part name?) is released under spring tension and slaps the sear with significant force to make it release. This force is absorbed by the half cock notch on the tumbler, and the sear at the point it engages said notch.

The sear is hardened metal, but quite thin. That's a bit of pressure to be absorbed by that little sliver of steel.

Thanks.

 

[Boomerang]

I would think that the sear would be universal to both left and right hand locks.

 

[BrownBear]

I do wonder why you suggest calling VS e-mailing. The person I e-mailed at traditions has a fine record with responding to me promptly.

That's good news. My info is obviously dated. When I was dealing with them a few years back, I sent at least a dozen emails to customer service over 6 months and never got a single answer. I was pizzed blind by then, so made a call and got service right away. Finally.

 

[Adui]

I would think that the sear would be universal to both left and right hand locks.

I thought so too till I looked at the mechanism. The sear has a protrusion that sticks out into the stock so the trigger bar can engage it. On a right hand lock that protrusion will point left, on a left hand lock it will point right, a mirror image of the left. (I assume based upon what the parts look like in mine)

 

[Adui]

Good to know Traditions is stepping up there game from days past. Equally good I never had to contact them before they did this.

 

[Adui]

Rifleman1776: Thank you. I thought after my response I should at least look at the schematic and see what Traditions calls that screw. According to the schematic of MY rifle, its actually named the Bolster Screw, and (obviously) is only on percussion guns, (Yes the schematic actually says that).
:surrender: :thumbsup:
You gave me reason to learn something I didn't before know!

 

[azmntman]

Those of us that dryball (and admit it) all use the CLEAN OUT screw for reasons you mentioned (easy). Those of that do this also remove this little screw religiously at cleaning so it will come out when needed. If ya skip a cleaning or two it will forever remain a BOLSTER screw as it aint never coming out again!

I will always call it a clean and screw myself, if you have another name for it thats cool. I call my rifle my Hawkens, my wife calls it a musket (as she does for all my BP rifles).

 

[Rifleman1776]

When the rifle is at half cock the sear sits in a notch, it cannot trip the lock without either breaking the notch, or breaking the sear.
When a set trigger is tripped, the engaging bar (part name?) is released under spring tension and slaps the sear with significant force to make it release. This force is absorbed by the half cock notch on the tumbler, and the sear at the point it engages said notch.

The sear is hardened metal, but quite thin. That's a bit of pressure to be absorbed by that little sliver of steel.

I've been at this game more decades than I care to admit. I have dry fired with the sett trigger on several rifles thousands of times. Some of the top champion shooters I have met practice dry firing hundreds of times a day doing that. Until a recent similar post here I didn't know it could be damaging to the lock. I'm skeptical. Really, is it? :idunno: