Priming Powder

[Rifleman1776]

It might be noted that nothing was mentioned about graphite preventing the absorption of moisture from the air.

I think the moisture grabbing ability of 4f black powder is greatly exaggerated. :hmm:

So....ye think that myth ain't real? :wink:

 

[ebiggs1]

You don't need to have any specialized equipment to try this out. Just a friend! :grin:
Have them prime your gun with out you knowing which powder they are using, 4f, 3f, or 2f.
See if you can tell the difference. :hmm:
I have done this many times with my willing two sons and the results are always the same.
Use the same gun and try to prime the same each time. :hmm:

Just guessing on 4f vs 3f but virtually 100% accurate between 4f and 2f. :thumbsup:

 

[Robby]

Good idea ebiggs!! When my boys come home for a visit we always go out for a little shooting and a lot of laughs. Though thinking on it, I'm not sure they would be on the up and up in telling me what exactly they put in the pan :rotf: :rotf: ! :hatsoff:
Robby

 

[Maven]

I did that when I got my first FL and only had FFg on hand. It worked perfectly, but I only ground 1 tablespoon at a time and wore a full face shield while doing so. These days, however, I use store bought FFFFg, but will use FFFg if I must.

 

[Dphar]

Newb here. I only have 3f for my flintlock and know that it can be used for priming powder. Wondering if I can take small amounts and crush to finer grain in a ceramic mortar and pestal to create a finer priming powder. Is there an 'ignition hazard' in crushing small amounts of 3f? Anyone tried it before?

Extremely fine powder or powder with a lot of dust is actually slower than clean granulated powder in FFFF probably even FFF if really ground fine.
Save your FFF and use it as is for prime until you can find FFFF or Swiss Null B.
Using FFFF for prime has several advantages over using FFF or FF. Its easier to trickle through a vent if loaded without powder for example.
It also faster in actual tests.
Dan

 

[hanshi]

So 3F will do fine for both charges? :idunno:

Actually, yes. 4F IS faster than 3F but both are plenty fast enough. I like 4F because it's easy to meter from small prime holders (brass or otherwise) and is easy to trickle through a vent hole in case of a dry ball.

 

[fyrfyter43]

I use Swiss 4F (Dixon's sells it re-packaged in 1/4 lb containers) in one of those fancy brass primers when I'm at a range where I'm not allowed to prime from my horn. Otherwise, I prime with whatever is in my horn - most often 2F Graf's.

The Swiss 4F may be slightly faster, but not enough for me to notice, or for it to effect my shooting.

 

[Zonie]

I think the moisture grabbing ability of 4f black powder is greatly exaggerated. :hmm:

Several years ago, I posted the results of my testing 4F powder with 100 percent humidity conditions.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/195260/post/283953/fromsearch/1/

For those who don't want to follow the link the bottom line concerning just how susceptible 4F powder is to humidity is, in a clean pan it seems to be totally unaffected.

In a fouled pan, the fouling sucks the humidity out of the air and becomes damp. The 4F powder sitting on this damp fouling becomes damp and can fail to ignite when the locks sparks land on it.

I didn't test 3Fg powder but I suspect it would be very similar to the 4F powder.
The moral of that story is, always wipe the fouling from your pan before loading the next round.

 

[jerrywh]

Sorry but stone tools do spark at times. I use a wooden rolling pin and a hardwood board. Do small amounts at a time and wear glasses and gloves. If you love yourself.

 

[Dphar]

The test is not if you can tell the difference or not by "ear". Its how the balls group on the TARGET.

Dan

 

[ebiggs1]

I did read your test when you first did it. It got me to thinking folks were exaggerating the moisture story. And I did similar tests of my own.
But the fact remains that if you prime 3f on a dirty fouled pan it grabs moisture about the same!
So the advantage claimed by some isn't valid there either. The best advise is to either watch it closely or wipe the pan completely before priming.
My procedure currently is to NOT prime until I shoot. This is no matter if I am in the firing line or the deer stand.

 

[ebiggs1]

With all the factors considered I still give 4f the better choice to use. :thumbsup:
You notice most that uses 3f or even 2f make the claim that it is AS good as 4f. They don't say 3f is BETER than 4f. :hmm:

 

[hanshi]

Just keep in mind that it's the FOULING from the last shot that draws the moisture; NOT the prime.

 

[nchawkeye]

The test is not if you can tell the difference or not by "ear". Its how the balls group on the TARGET.

Dan

Exactly...Back in the late 70s, I attended my first shoot...One of the fellows saw me priming from my horn and proceded to educate me on how much faster my flinter would go off with FFFF...
Well, I won the match...Later I tried FFFF vs FFF and couldn't tell a difference in groups or speed of ignition...I just figured I'd keep it simple...

 

[Zonie]

OH!
I thought of another reason 4F is better than 3Fg!

IT LASTS A LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG TIME!!!!!


Using 3Fg powder for both the main charge and for priming can use up a pound of it pretty fast but a pound of 4F powder is good for over 1500 primes.

 

[ebiggs1]

Notice how you anti-4f guys change? Now it's the FOULING that draws the moisture! :grin:
Not the 4f! :hmm:

 

[Rifleman1776]

Just keep in mind that it's the FOULING from the last shot that draws the moisture; NOT the prime.

How very rude of you.
Confusing them with facts. :nono:
:wink:

 

[hanshi]

Notice how you anti-4f guys change? Now it's the FOULING that draws the moisture! :grin:
Not the 4f! :hmm:

If you read my post you should be able to see that I'm NOT anti 4F. I specifically stated that I use and have always used 4F. If I give out I use 3F rather than pack up and go home.

Now, it is a demonstrated fact that bp FOULING is hygroscopic, not the powder. Powder can get flat out old fashioned country WET; but it does not particularly attract moisture. In fact, bp will stay dry even in high humidity as long as it's not exposed to a surface that collects moisture. or powder fouling. Sorry if this bursts your balloon but that's nature; not me.

 

[ebiggs1]

Sorry, the post was not specifically directed at you. Just used it as a basis for the reply.
The corrected post should have read. :bow:

Notice how [strike]you[/strike] the anti-4f guys change? Now it's the FOULING that draws the moisture!

But I do suggest if 4f fouls due to the pan being fouled, so will 3f! :hmm:

 

[ebiggs1]

Confusing them with facts.

:shocked2: WOW and from the Fact-checker himself!