Plague of the Dragoon

[don hepler]

Each time that I went to local Sportsman's Warehouse, there in the back corner of the store, hung a rack of Traditions BP pistols and two lonely Uberti's. One was a Walker and the other a 2nd model Dragoon. I was hoping someone would buy them, and get rid of the temptation. But yesterday, the temptation, over-came me and I bought the big Dragoon.

Over the years, I've had several BP revolvers. Two were 2nd. gen. Colts, which I never fired, so I sold them. One was a Pietta 1860, older model, that I never liked the quality. Some of the first one's that I had were brass framed and mostly junk. But, the best one that I owned was a Uberti Colt Walker, that shot point of aim, at 25 yards. I still have a ROA, but they just don't have the traditional look and feel, like the Colts.

The trigger pull, on the Dragoon, is not the best, but I'll work on that later. Today I plan to give it a full work out, and hope it hits close to point of aim.

I'll give a report, later today or tomorrow.

The only cure for the Plague, would be 6 rounds balls, in a tiny group, at 25 yards.

 

[Artificer]

IMO, you did well to choose the Dragoon and not the Walker, especially for shooting. Repro Walkers are neat, but the fact they do not have a spring loaded catch for the rammer means the rammer constantly falls down when firing the Walker. I don't know if the original Walker Colts were plagued with that problem, but the repro's certainly are.

Gus

 

[BillinOregon]

I agree with Gus. Eager to hear your range report, as these big Colts can shoot very well indeed.

 

[MSW]

pictures?

range report?

it's not nice to tease people, you know...

 

[don hepler]

First group was 6 o'clock hold on center diamond at 20 yards. Load was 35 grs. of Black Mz, with a Hornady .454 ball, wad over powder.

Second group in upper right hand corner, I was using same load except 40 grs. of Black Mz. I was holding 2" down and 2" left.

Two of the shots, on first group, were by a club member itching to shoot it. His shots were a tad bit higher than my first four shots.

"Well punk....you gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"

What you smiling at "Mr. Tin Can?" "I'm bout to rip your guts out."

 

[Treestalker]

Owned a 3rd model Dragoon by Uberti, best quality cap and ball pistol I ever owned. Traded it later for a stainless thing in a modern SA configuration and caliber. Horrible mistake! Perhaps another will come along someday. I have owned a Walker, and a 3rd model by armi san marco or paulo that cracked the end of the cylinder pin. The Walker was an impressive piece, but as has been noted, it dropped the ramming lever about every other shot. Wound up in the hands of a friend of mine. George.

 

[Treestalker]

Sorry.

 

[don hepler]

Actually, I referred to this pistol as 2nd. model, but I believe it is the 3rd. model. If I remember correctly, the 1st. and 2nd. models had the squared trigger guard, like the one used on the Colt Walker.

 

[matt denison]

I think that is some pretty good shooting for a gun right out of the box. :thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

You are correct.
The 1st and 2nd Model Dragoon had square back trigger guards.

The 3rd Model trigger guard has the rounded shape like the one in the picture.

 

[don hepler]

Thanks. I was happy with the way the gun shot. Now I have another problem. The wedge is not tight and with the screw head, there is no farther to go. The wedge should be tight, just as the spring catch, passes through to the opposite side.

I called Stoger, and they offered to send me a new wedge, but I'm worried that the slot is too wide. A thicker wedge, will take care of the problem. I placed a .012 shim in the wedge slot, and it fit perfect. The wedge fit is critical to maintaining the barrel gap, and a loose wedge would be hammered and increase the cylinder gap. Hopefully they will send a slightly oversize wedge, and if need be, I can work it down.

I've never experienced this before.

 

[Zonie]

Actually, if things are like they were originally designed, it is the bottom of the arbor hole in the barrel and the forward end of the cylinder arbor seating against the bottom of the hole in the barrel that sets up the barrel gap.

The wedge just holds the barrel snugly against the end of the cylinder arbor.

When the wedge, the wedge slot thru the arbor, the wedge slot thru the barrel and the depth of the arbor hole are correct the spring catch may extend thru the barrel or not.
The "spring catch" is there to catch on the screw head when the wedge is removed from the arbor slot. It is not there to catch on the far side of the barrel.

Anyway, if the wedge is hitting the screw head because it is in too far, you are wise to replace it.

As for the barrel stopping on the end of the arbor to position it, more than a few of us have added a thin washer to the bottom of the barrel's arbor hole.
After throughly degreasing the washer and the arbor hole in the barrel a touch of epoxy between the bottom of the barrel hole and the forward face of the washer will keep it in place. (Be sure to let the epoxy fully harden before reassembling the gun. You don't want to epoxy the barrel to the gun. :grin: )

If this added washer is the right thickness, the face of the cylinder, when the cylinder is held rearward against the force of the hand spring, will have a gap of between .005 and .010 to the rear of the barrel.

 

[Mr. Troll]

I had to file the forcing cone on my 1851 Navy to get any kind of air gap. When I got it, the wedge had to be in pretty loose or the barrel would bind the cylinder. After filing, the wedge goes in correctly and I have a .006 air gap. I cut an 18° bevel in the barrel to create a forcing cone..tightened the groups up to 2-2 1/2" at 25 yards...

 

[don hepler]

Zonie, you are correct, I placed the barrel on the arbor, at an angle(minus the cylinder)then rotated it to see how it aligned to the frame. It was a very good fit. With the wedge screw removed and everything in place, I can slide the wedge in finger tight and my cylinder to barrel gap is .oo8. That could be closed by .002 if I tapped the wedge, just snug.

With a piece of .012 of shim standing on edge, at the back of the wedge slot, the wedge goes in perfect. To me perfect is when the wedge is snug, and the spring(head) is just short of the wedge screw, and the spring catch is just past the far side of the slot. Either my wedge is .012 to thin or the slot opening is .012 too wide. Not knowing the slot specs., has me concerned that it is the slot. However they may have oversize wedges, and are hand fitted.
I can shoot the gun, minus the wedge screw, without any issues. However, I like it to be the way it was intended.

 

[Zonie]

As it was intended is good.

If it were mine, I would temporarily remove the wedge screw and install the wedge snugly and shoot it. This would not be dangerous at all.

When my new wedge arrived I would put the screw back in place, install the wedge and check out the fit.

It probably will be OK. If it isn't, epoxying the thin brass shim to the side of the wedge should fix things.

 

[don hepler]

Totally agree.

One thing that bothers me about the Uberti Manual, is that it seems to be written for all of their pistols. It gives a starting load for 44 as 22grs. and a max load of 30grs. That seems okay for the 1860 models, but unless I add a filler, I think 30 grs. would not be compressed. I actually shot it with 40 grs. and a felt wad over powder, and the ball was still a bit back in the cylinder.
Do you think I should add enough filler to bring the ball closer to the front of the cylinder?

 

[hawkeye2]

It's doubtful you will ever notice the difference. I shoot a light load and use a filler but I keep the ball just a little below the face of the cylinder rather than try to bring it almost flush.

 

[Gene L]

IMO, you did well to choose the Dragoon and not the Walker, especially for shooting. Repro Walkers are neat, but the fact they do not have a spring loaded catch for the rammer means the rammer constantly falls down when firing the Walker. I don't know if the original Walker Colts were plagued with that problem, but the repro's certainly are.

Gus

I've read recently (The American Rifleman?) that the rammer did fall down on the originals as well and many wrapped a rawhide thong around the barrel to prevent this from happening, since loading was something best done at leisure. (My take, I don't know if the article said that.)

 

[AZbpBurner]

Put your wedge on an anvil and whack it a few times with a stout hammer. You can widen a wedge just enough to fit properly without even having to heat the wedge before pounding on it.

 

[denster]

Whaking the wedge to widen it will interfere with the taper of the wedge that matches the taper in the end of the arbor. Best idea is to solder a piece of shim stock to the edge that faces the cylinder.