Permalyn vs Tru Oil

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dallas10c

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I am at the point on my first build where I have the stock sanded and have 3 coats of stain applied and it is finally the color I want. I have both Permalyn sealer and Tru Oil and was wondering which to use. Are there any major drawbacks to either that I should know about? I have been searching old posts and see that a lot of folks use both and I was wondering which way to go. I have put a lot of time and effort into my first kit and don't want to ruin it with the finish.

Any help or advice would be great.
 

Headhunter

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Are you wanting a Gloss or satin finish when you are done?

HH
 

tecum-tha

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I used the Permalyn on my first full buildt rifle,too. I did not like the "clear coat" like finish the sealer and finish gave me. Tru-Oil is usually Tung-Oil with a chemical hardening compound to speed the hardening. I used Tung-Oil mixed with 15% Orange Oil on a kit gun I finished and used 7 handrubbed coats. I like the appearance and feel of that finish better.
Take a look here:
http://www.dick.biz/dick/product/705286/detail.jsf
Just my 2 cents.
The period correct finish would be linseed oil.
http://www.dick.biz/dick/product/705275/detail.jsf

I have a little booklet from this company with natural finish recipes. I see what I can find.
 

dallas10c

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I would like a nice satin finish, but from the directions I have read from both products, if I apply it by hand like I planned I can get a satin finish from either one. I know Permalyn is more of a varnish, but I have also read that the Tru Oil will dry and crack or chip over time.
 

Mike Brooks

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Recon said:
I would like a nice satin finish, but from the directions I have read from both products, if I apply it by hand like I planned I can get a satin finish from either one. I know Permalyn is more of a varnish, but I have also read that the Tru Oil will dry and crack or chip over time.
They both suck. Use Chambers oil finish.
 

dallas10c

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Thanks Mike...that is exactly the type of straight foward advice from a master I was looking for. Any advice for applying the Chambers finish after I order some? Should the first coats go on thicker to help fill the pores or should I just do them thin like the later coats and let it build up very slowly?
 

Fishhog

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I was wondering about the Chambers finish myself. Headhunter,Tried finding Okene type danish finish but only found regular danish oil not sure if it's the same or close to it ,Watco I think Pretty Hawken by the way..Mike,any tips on applying the Chambers finish still up in the air on what to try.I have always used tru oil and BLO but hate the cheap look of the tru oil and BlO is just a pain and seems to smell forever with no great protection..Ray
 

Headhunter

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Okene is found at Pratte & Lambert Paint Stores.

Danish oil is not the same, although it is pretty dern good.

HH
 

paulvallandigham

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I have used Tru-oil for years and have not seen nor experienced any cracking or deterioration over that time.

Comments like Mike made are not particularly enlightening. It would have been nice if he suggested some alternative finish he can recommend.
I don't know why you are so impressed with those kind of remarks.

As to getting a satin finish with true oil, The last coat I rub into my stocks, I wait ten minutes, and the lightly rube clean fingers over the entire surface. This breaks the shiney surface gloss that normally appears as the product dries, and leaves a nice matte finish. That is as close to " satin finish" as I have ever found. Even tung oil will gloss unless this is also done to it. And, BLO can also gloss up, if you aren't careful in how its applied.

It is usually HOW a finish is applied that creates the kind of finish you desire, rather than the CHEMICAL MAKEUP of the finish.

I don't have any experience with Permalyn so I will not hazard any comment on it.

Some products will work better on gun stocks if they are thinned with denatured alcohol, before being applied. If you are having trouble with a finish drying too thick, or too glossy, you might want to keep that in mind, and experiment a bit.
 

doulos

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I wouldnt hesitate to use Tru -Oil. Ive got about 10 coats on a hunting rifle I refinished and it still looks great. Ive used the rifle hard for 2 seasons and countless times at the range. Just say this its used hard. And its hard for me to believe you could ask more from this finish. I put it on very sparingly and hand ribbed it in and let each coat dry about 24 hours. I rubbed it down with 0000 steel wool between coats.
Im sure the other finishes are great too. This is just my limited experience with this product.
 

Vaino

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So far I've been using 2 coats of LMF sealer applied heavily for soak in and then each coat is wiped off before the sealer gets too tacky and a complete dry between coats. I then apply 3 coats of Wahkon Bay Trucoat sparingly w/ the finger tip w/ a complete dry between coats. Seeing I don't like a glossy or even a shiny satin finish, the Trucoat yields a very soft, dull finish that requires a lot of rubbing w/ a fluffy towel to achieve any shine at all. Very similar to a boiled linseed oil finish but w/o the drying complications of BLO. Trucoat also eliminates the need to dull a built-up, glossy finish w/ steel wool or pumice. The resultant finish is very thin and doesn't look like a surface finish at all.....Fred
 

Erzulis boat

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Permalyn-

The sealer is very thin and easy to work with. Different woods require different techniques/finish.

Maple is typically "tight" and just the application of Permalyn sealer can get the job done perfectly.

In my opinion, I like the wood to be sealed/finished right to the edge, meaning that the finish is not noticeably "built up" past the surface. Some people say that the finish is "In the wood", and it will give the stock an earthy and warm feel and look.

Walnut- Most slabs of walnut are typically more porous than the maple, so "in the wood" finishes will still have a multitude of tiny pores still visible at the right angles. The trick is to get it looking finished without going too light or too heavy. I have finished walnut with Permalyn sealer only, and have had great results with tighter old growth walnut.

I do not purchase Permalyn finish, just sealer now. Good stuff, and EXTREMELY weather resistant.

Tru Oil-

Tried and true, with natural oils and synthetic driers. Easy to repair, can be thinned readily, and is a classic tried and true finish.

Can be applied over Permalyn sealer, for a bombproof, easy to repair finish.

Tends to be quite thick, so take it easy on any finish coats with maple, walnut is not so sensitive. I would advise against getting Tru Oil built up very thick, where it appears that there is a "skin" of finish on top of the wood. Stop right at the surface, this lets the color impart a very nice hue, as it will not dry perfectly clear.

Tru Oil has a natural tone when dry, so this is a nice bonus when you go with natural oils.

Gloss or satin?

Tru Oil if built up naturally goes gloss, but can be taken back easily. Permalyn sealer if used correctly goes satin without any fuss.

Either finish works- You just have to use it correctly.
 

Mike Brooks

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Comments like Mike made are not particularly enlightening. It would have been nice if he suggested some alternative finish he can recommend.
I don't know why you are so impressed with those kind of remarks.
I keep my answers short as I'm not trying to impress anybody about how much I know. People tend to fall asleep when folks make long rambling posts that are filled with little if any knowledge.
I flood chambers finish on with a dauber untill the stock won't take any more.Then I wipe of the excess with a paper towel. I then apply maybe 3 or 4 coats by hand , rubbing it in real well to keep it thin. About a coat a day untill it looks the way you want.
 

jimmytheshank

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I keep my answers short as I'm not trying to impress anybody about how much I know. People tend to fall asleep when folks make long rambling posts that are filled with little if any knowledge.

Well said, well said. :haha:

My buddy Mike ( oldarmy) uses a combo of tru-oil and BLO on his guns. I like the finish myself and have no complaints.
 

J.D.

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A coupla friends who are excellent builders use Permalyn sealer, as a seal coat, then apply Chambers oil finish over the Permalyn.

Looks good, seals very well.
 

Birddog6

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Mike Brooks said:
They both suck. Use Chambers oil finish.
Mike, tell us how you really feel about Tru-Oil & Permalyn...... :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
 

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For the most part. I think the method of application plays a bigger role in the outcome than the product used. Chambers oil, Permalyn and Tru oil are all popular and great results can be had from each. Some may be a bit more fool-proof than others but they all work.....in the right hands. To validate the results that can be had from permalyn one need look no further than here http://www.billshipman.com/ . Permalyn is all Bill uses.
 
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rabjr

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Either I need new glasses or this guy needs a lesson in picture taking. Kinda a shame to show nice guns like that in blurred pictures.
 
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