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Parker Hale Volunteer lock broken.

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nagantino

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At the range yesterday, shooting at 50 yards, 60 grains of Swiss 2. At around the 10th shot the gun fired but afterward the hammer flopped loose. The nipple was gone, it was not cinched down but it was firm. Anyway, when I opened it today the lock mechanism was obviously broken. I cannot tell if more than one part is broken or missing. The photos show the damage.
Does any one know a source for parts or know someone who could rebuild it. I’m in the UK but I would consider anyone, anywhere.
 

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bisleyjohn

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Have you seen this thread?

 

nagantino

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Bisleyjohn,
I was hoping you would intercede. Peter Dyson looks like my first lead. To say I’m ****** about this is an understatemen.
 

bisleyjohn

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Bisleyjohn,
I was hoping you would intercede. Peter Dyson looks like my first lead. To say I’m ****** about this is an understatemen.
I have bee looking, in vain so far, for some (pdf I think) documents with lock diagrams in it’s various forms - this would give you an idea of what piece, if any, is missing. I’ll keep looking. S&S firearms in the states carry a lot of parts too, I bought my .577 PH mould from them.

TOW site has this if all else fails


and Blakely


HTH
 
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TFoley

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Looks like you have a busted tumbler -

1606418492074.png


Peter Dyson has them for £35 + shipping.
 

TFoley

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Sir, you are not showing us the broken bit - you are showing where it was. Right now we are trying to second-guess you, even thought the part I showed bears a remarkable resemblance to the bit you've busted. Looks to me like you've lost the swivel as well.

1606426609716.png






1606425056267.png


Artificer wrote this back in 2018 - it is STILL true today. -

1. REAL Parker Hale Locks made in the UK. These were the ONLY reproduction locks and parts I ever ran across that ALSO correctly fit Original Enfield Percussion Locks and were interchangeable. While the Real Parker Hale was in production, we often used their parts to fix Original Tower and London Armory locks ”“ which were made on the Interchangeable Parts Manufacturing System. After Parker Hale went out of business in the UK, we now repair these locks with Original Enfield Parts.

If you are still in a quandary after all this, I'll dismantle one of my genuine old P-H locks for verification.
 

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TFoley

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Okay - this is the lock of my fifty-year-old Musketoon - the pieces that are busted/missing on yours are the tumbler and the swivel - seen here central lower section of the image - which connects the tumbler to the mainspring - Peter Dyson has both in return only for money.

1606428131216.png
 

nagantino

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That’s great and thanks. I’ve used a strong magnet over the floor of my workshop but I can’t find any more parts. Yes it looks like 2 bits of the lock are missing. Not sure if my skills would be enough to reassemble it. I’ll talk to Peter Dyson tomorroW.
 

Sam squanch

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The nipple was GONE? Was there a loading mistake, too much powder? I’m sorry for your bad luck.
 

TFoley

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60 grains of Swiss No2.
Nothing wrong with that load. Sad about the disappearing nipple, though. I reckon that it blew back through a worn-out nipple that had just had enough...you'll need an 'easy-out' to get the remains out of the bolster, no doubt.
 

Davey Boy

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Bisleyjohn,
I was hoping you would intercede. Peter Dyson looks like my first lead. To say I’m ****** about this is an understatemen.
First I want to say Do Not Be Discouraged

This part can be made from scratch and your lock will work as good as new again.

The only part I see missing in your picture is a pin that links the fly to the spring. Thanks to your good photos it looks like crystallization of the metal caused the failure. In time it would probably fall apart.

To find tiny parts, get down on the floor with a strong flashlight that has a focused beam. preferably one of the new ones that has an LED type bulb. Shine the flashlight against the floor so the beam makes a track across the floor like a lighthouse shows on the water. Any little thing on the floor will reflect the light and you will see it. If you have cuffs if your pants check those. Little parts bounce and land in amazing places. You can try a vacuum cleaner, start with it cleaned, rinse and dry the hose and nozzle. New bag or wash and dry the bin. Vacuum everything everywhere, then search the vacuum.

Save the broken parts and keep them in a marked container that is guarded at all times.

Do not send these parts to anyone until you have precise measurements, photos, and a really good plan.

IMG_6598.JPG

I am using names that may not be correct for naming the lock parts. But the names make sense to me. Feel free to identify the parts I am discussing.

In the picture the spring is removed, the rocker cover is removed and shown. The fly as you can see is mounted to the arm of the rocker with a small pin. The end of the spring has two hooks that engage the fly. On this lock the T shaped part engages the hooks at the end of the spring.

If you look at the picture with the broken fly, the spring has two hooks. The broken fly has two hooks. These two pieces are made to sit side by side in the location with a pin allowing the hooks to have rotation at the intersection.

What I see needs to be done since there is a void of technical information needed:

Mate the broken pieces as if not broken - and please no glue, welding or holding with fingers!

Measure the part and record using a Computer Aided Drawing (CAD) program. When this work is complete, an exact representation of the broken parts will be drawn as a completed part. Use a quality digital readout caliper and a micrometer with readouts to 00.0000 and make all measurements precise. use a measuring pin set to measure hole sizes.

Once you have a drawing, the part can be made.

Select the metal.
Decide on heat treatment.
Machine the part to tolerance.
Fit test not under load or stress.
Make a spare one or two
Complete heat treatment
Fit test
Test under load
Verify part is operational

My worst fear in all this is you lose control of the broken part. Finding one person to do all this is a quest. Finding a specialist in each of the categories is much easier. BE VERY CAREFUL

Again, do not let the parts out of your direct control until you have an exact drawing. Even if it means standing there watching them work.

When it comes to shipping valuable items, box it big enough so it cant' be "lost". Insure for the maximum amount. Require next day signed delivery. Use Fed Ex or UPS or similar carrier but do not ever send via some government outfit. Don't ever use a Fragile label. Packaging should stand up to being crushed and blown up.
 

52Bore

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Based on your description, it appears the lock broke because you didn’t have a proper sized nipple (threads). The nipple blew out of the threads and blew the hammer back - busting the lock. Check the threads of the breech as well.
The tumbler is broke and the stirrup (link between tumbler & mainspring) is missing as well in the photos.
 
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TFoley

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I'm hearing a lot of echoes here, folks. Am I wasting my time posting images of an actual Parker-Hale lock like the OP's with the busted/missing parts actually named by the people who made them, and the dealer who can provide them?

The OP lives in UK, BTW.

Peter Dyson, the man with all the spare parts, genuine Enfield spare parts, note, that are a perfect fit for the Parker-Hale parts that were made using the exact same jigs and patterns, is also in the UK. My post details the words of Artificer, an American gunsmith and master craftsman who has used these part many times to replace busted parts on originals as well as Parker-Hale's replicas. Did I mention that the Parker-Hale locks were made using the original jigs and patterns from the Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield Lock? Well, there ya go, I've done it again.

If the OP is not able to fully describe the parts, then it is very unlikely that he would also be able to undertake the technical craftsmanship required to measure up and replicate the parts, or am I mistaking something here?
 
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Stantheman86

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Sounds like he needs to contact the man TFoley mentioned and get the prescribed part.

Mechanical parts break, it happens. It can be fixed.

I'm more interested in the "nipple was gone " issue since I also shoot a .451 Volunteer . I use nipples from ToTW in the correct Enfield thread.
 

hawkeye2

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Agreed, the lock fix is simple, 2 parts and someone who can fit them properly. The how and why of the missing nipple is quite another (serious?) thing.
 

Rudyard

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'Rocker' (Tumbler). cover thing is a ( bridle) swivel link might be the' Fly?' you mention .If Dysons have the parts suggest you avail in them .
Rudyard
 

TFoley

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The fly is the interruptor on the sear that prevents the hammer falling from half-cock.

What IS busted on the OPs lock is the tumbler. The swivel is missing completely, and there is the matter of the missing nipple, which surely disintegrated when it blew the hammer back. I have recommended to the OP - off-piste - to order a couple of replacement beryllium-copper Enfield nipples and their copper spacer washers, too.

Peter Dyson is the name of the company, now managed by son and d-i-l which has had around fifty or more years of highly successful dealings with the Royal Armouries, as well as major museums in UK regarding the curation of older-style firearms. They deal in many genuine parts for older British-make guns like the Enfield and Sniders that many of us shoot, as well a lot of Parker-Hale parts.

Here is the blurb -

Peter Dyson and Son Ltd of Huddersfield
Specialists in the repair and restoration of Antique, Vintage and modern weapons.

Late Gunmakers to The Royal Armouries. Incorporating Carr Bros. & Wm. Golden, Gunmakers to the Late King of Prussia. Qualified Gunsmiths offering good old-fashioned service. Specialists in the repair and restoration of Antique, Vintage and modern weapons.

We offer a wide and varied range of spare parts for the repair and restoration of antique and Vintage weapons.
  • Reproduction Trade Cards.
  • Accessories for inclusion into cased sets are made on the premises.
  • Miniature weapons a speciality.
  • Carefully selected antique and vintage weapons for sale.
Peter Dyson & Son Ltd. is a family firm, founded in 1964 to channel Peter Dyson's engineering skills into his lifelong antiquarian and black powder shooting interests.

Peter Dyson & Son Ltd. are members of G.T.A. (Gun Trade Association) - Peter Dyson is a past Chairman of the Association.

Peter Dyson, Andrew Dyson and Wendy Dyson are all Liverymen of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers and members of the Council . We are also members of B.A.S.C. [the British association of Shooting and Conservancy].
 

Rudyard

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I had him do a lock conversion when he w
orked from his attick at Honley..allways knew how the charge.
Rudyard
 
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