Bulgaria isn’t part of Schengen, so couldn’t they have border checks? I took a train from Berlin to Prague in 2015 and they did a border check, due to the refugee crisis.
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Ottoman Guns
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Sam squanch
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All hail ME, I was right……
To go back to the barrels, with Bulgaria not being an option, does anyone know of a decent way to source usable barrels, or ones that can be refurbished? If anyone wanted to make a replica, that seems to be by far the hardest to authentically imitate, unless they wanted to forge, file, and engrave a barrel themselves.
This is all pretty new to me, so I could be completely wrong and European style barrels are also appropriate
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Sam squanch
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Find an old Indian matchlock barrel and re work it I guess. I think a swamped octagon rifle barrel with some engraving might work too.
I mean, it works, it just may take multiple tries.
Barrels i would think would be very easy to ship out rather than entire guns. A metal tube could be classified as just about anything.
A swamped octagon barrel could be substituted, however many European barrels were used, most popular were Italian barrels from Brescia such as this one that was on an Albanian Tančica. Though it could be French or German and marked as Italian later since they were more desirable.
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Wonderful. All great idea!
For making an ottoman matchlock, Sam’s idea of a Torador barrel is a good idea, assuming a relatively short one is available. It pains me to suggest destroying a historical artifact, but so many are available in such varied condition, that one with decent metal bits and a damaged stock could also have the lock salvaged and reused, because it’s the same as the ottoman mechanism.
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Some thoughts here...
If one wanted to have a copy of an Ottoman shishane or tufek - primarily for shooting, it would not seem too difficult.
1 Order a finished miquelet lock and ball trigger/plate from the Bulgarian builder/supplier mentioned above.
2 A rifled or smooth barrel can easily be ordered from one of the custom barrel makers here in the U.S. Octagon tapered and flared, Octagon tapered to muzzle (Hawken style). Hessian rifle style. I've seen all three styles on these guns. Even Octagon tapered to round - with a cannon style muzzle if you're willing to wait a long time.
3 Send the barrel to Pecatonica (or a couple others). While the barrel is there, select the wood stock blank you desire (probably walnut) and have them pre-inlet the barrel channel of the stock blank to your barrel. And drill the hole for the ramrod. Have them leave the stock from the lock panels area on back as the original blank for later shaping. Cost for this is about $150.00USD plus the cost of the wood. But it will save the ultimate builder a bunch of time not having to inlet the stock for the barrel or drill the ramrod hole. Try to get the thickest stock blank they can supply. At least 2.5" or better. Order the straight style stock blank with little to no down curve. If you want one of those shishane's with the very wide butt stocks, just order two extra 2"pieces of the same wood glued together to make it about 4" thick. A 8"L X 5" W should work. (I've done all this before).
4 Barrel bands can also likely be sourced from Bulgaria if they know the approximate circumference required.
5 Now the builder can add the front and rear sights to the barrel and assemble like a semi-kit. It will be easier than most since there is no butt plate or trigger guard to install. The miquelet lock takes less in letting since the mainspring is on the outside of the lock. I'm thinking all of this can be done at a fairly reasonable cost. Like any other gun, carving, engraving, and other decoration is what really adds up the cost. But a basic shooter could be had for a very reasonable cost. Of course, the decoration on original Eastern guns is also what makes them desirable. And I totally undderstand that. LOL
Rick
If one wanted to have a copy of an Ottoman shishane or tufek - primarily for shooting, it would not seem too difficult.
1 Order a finished miquelet lock and ball trigger/plate from the Bulgarian builder/supplier mentioned above.
2 A rifled or smooth barrel can easily be ordered from one of the custom barrel makers here in the U.S. Octagon tapered and flared, Octagon tapered to muzzle (Hawken style). Hessian rifle style. I've seen all three styles on these guns. Even Octagon tapered to round - with a cannon style muzzle if you're willing to wait a long time.
3 Send the barrel to Pecatonica (or a couple others). While the barrel is there, select the wood stock blank you desire (probably walnut) and have them pre-inlet the barrel channel of the stock blank to your barrel. And drill the hole for the ramrod. Have them leave the stock from the lock panels area on back as the original blank for later shaping. Cost for this is about $150.00USD plus the cost of the wood. But it will save the ultimate builder a bunch of time not having to inlet the stock for the barrel or drill the ramrod hole. Try to get the thickest stock blank they can supply. At least 2.5" or better. Order the straight style stock blank with little to no down curve. If you want one of those shishane's with the very wide butt stocks, just order two extra 2"pieces of the same wood glued together to make it about 4" thick. A 8"L X 5" W should work. (I've done all this before).
4 Barrel bands can also likely be sourced from Bulgaria if they know the approximate circumference required.
5 Now the builder can add the front and rear sights to the barrel and assemble like a semi-kit. It will be easier than most since there is no butt plate or trigger guard to install. The miquelet lock takes less in letting since the mainspring is on the outside of the lock. I'm thinking all of this can be done at a fairly reasonable cost. Like any other gun, carving, engraving, and other decoration is what really adds up the cost. But a basic shooter could be had for a very reasonable cost. Of course, the decoration on original Eastern guns is also what makes them desirable. And I totally undderstand that. LOL
Rick
Very interesting and good ideas, Rick.
If a swamped octagon barrel is sufficient, that would actually make life pretty easy for anyone trying to make a shooter for reenacting. If they wanted to do a matchlock, the lock itself would probably be easier than the European lock. Flat cut pieces and simple pinning. Using your toradar as a guide, because the ottoman pans I’ve seen are the same, adding the powder pan would be the same as any modern European matchlock build.
Because the lock spring mounts vertically, it would actually probably be easier to find a modern stand in to use, opposed to the European springs that mount along the side of the plate. I think something like a latch mechanism for a box would use that type?
If a swamped octagon barrel is sufficient, that would actually make life pretty easy for anyone trying to make a shooter for reenacting. If they wanted to do a matchlock, the lock itself would probably be easier than the European lock. Flat cut pieces and simple pinning. Using your toradar as a guide, because the ottoman pans I’ve seen are the same, adding the powder pan would be the same as any modern European matchlock build.
Because the lock spring mounts vertically, it would actually probably be easier to find a modern stand in to use, opposed to the European springs that mount along the side of the plate. I think something like a latch mechanism for a box would use that type?
Came across this interesting piece on a non-gun related forum. The owner had inherited it from his father and didnt know what it was exactly. Truth be told, I dont either! Has both Percussion and Flint hammers, but the percussion seems to not hit the nipple? It is dated 1808-1809
Also, a couple guns that unusually have Bulgarian Boyliya locks, a Tanchica
And a pair of Blunderbuss. Wondering if @bobi13 has seen somethings like this before?
Also, a couple guns that unusually have Bulgarian Boyliya locks, a Tanchica
And a pair of Blunderbuss. Wondering if @bobi13 has seen somethings like this before?
Sam squanch
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Could it be that someone took an existing percussion hammer and adapted it to work in tandem with the flint cock, and it broke, resulting in it being pushed forward?
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Hi John
Whether Ottoman/Indian/Omani, etc., the general pattern and function of this style of matchlock trigger/serpentine all seemed to have been made similar. At least all that I've held and seen. Must have been a simple design adopted by most of the makers throughout the Empire. The spring tension is very light. Just enough to lower the serpentine to the pan. When you let go of the trigger, the serpentine returns to it's upper position. The serpentine arms are slightly springy which allows adjustment of the match cord without the need of a set screw.
By the way, when the time comes, you are welcome to borrow my mechanism to use as a pattern.
Rick
Whether Ottoman/Indian/Omani, etc., the general pattern and function of this style of matchlock trigger/serpentine all seemed to have been made similar. At least all that I've held and seen. Must have been a simple design adopted by most of the makers throughout the Empire. The spring tension is very light. Just enough to lower the serpentine to the pan. When you let go of the trigger, the serpentine returns to it's upper position. The serpentine arms are slightly springy which allows adjustment of the match cord without the need of a set screw.
By the way, when the time comes, you are welcome to borrow my mechanism to use as a pattern.
Rick
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WOW!! That really is a strange one. The frizzen for the flint version is missing. The barrel was obviously converted to percussion. A real head scratchier without closer, personal examination.
Rick
Sam squanch
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Maybe the original owner wanted it to LOOK like a flintlock, at least at a distance. It would stop people from bumming percussion caps….and I read in some Muslim run countries, the local tax collectors were on the lookout for any sign of wealth, to squeeze you- I’m sure caps were a expensive imported item.
Rick,
That is a very kind offer! I appreciate it. I always have my eye out for a toradar of my own to buy, if I can find one at the right price and condition.
I am currently reading Guns for the Sultan: Military Power and the Weapons Industry in the Ottoman Empire, by Gábor Ágoston. The author describes the indigenous Ottoman arms industry, but also the cross pollination with the Ottoman neighbors. The similarity between the Ottoman, Mughal, and Safavid guns makes sense with their wars and mutual technological assistance.
Sam squanch
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I’ve seen old air guns that were made up to look like a regular flintlock, either for looks, or they were banned in certain locations. Maybe this was a similar situation.
I got some more photos of the lock from the owner and it seems the cock was notched to allow the percussion hammer to fit between it and move with it. The wire wrapping makes it seem very jerry-rigged but the hammer wear and patina pretty well matches the gun, so it may be a very old conversion that worked.
Outside of my scope, is this an Italian or Spanish barrel?
And Bobi, very interesting to see the Boyliya lock got used on other guns! I even saw a Caucasian Khirimi recently with one.
Outside of my scope, is this an Italian or Spanish barrel?
And Bobi, very interesting to see the Boyliya lock got used on other guns! I even saw a Caucasian Khirimi recently with one.
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Sam squanch
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It would have been easier to make a jaw insert for the cock to hit the nipple.
