Original percussion gun question

[Col. Batguano]

I shot my SxS 1858 vintage Purdey this weekend for the first time. So far, I haven't found a load that works. It's a 40 bore (48 caliber) takes belted balls (which I cast from the original mould last week), and orienting them properly is a bit tricky to get them down there without binding. The load on the PB is suggested to be 2 1/2 dr. powder. I started with 50 gr,. and quickly moved up to 67 when I saw there were no ill effects with the vintage damascus barrels.

I noticed a curious thing when cleaning it though. The water seems to squirt out the blowout holes in the side similar to the vent on a flint lock. Is that normal, or is it supposed to be gas tight, or is there supposed to be some kind of a bust disc there that is designed to fail if the breech is overpressured?

No, I didn't stumble upon any kind of an accurate load yet. .015" patches (Mink oil lube) were all gas cut and landed all over the place. I moved up to .018" patches, and it looked promising, but had to end the session before it could be explored further.

Anyone got any tips? A "name" gun like Purdey ought to be capable of some pretty decent shooting once I get it figured out. ML'ers in general can be finicky. I would think a belted ball SxS will be even more so.

 

[Heelerau]

Mate, are you shooting an alloy belted ball? I think if not you might need to try it coupled with a patch made of canvas, mink oil should be ok. I have a mate in New Zealand who hunts deer on occasion with a two groove rifle, I will ask him about what he does. I assume the rifle is cased, does the label say anything more about the load? I would harden the balls with 50/50 lead tin bar solder. Soft lead might allow the wings to strip.
I have been messing about with a "bore rifle", .72 Forsyth rifling, ver slow twist, say 1" in 100" using 4 1/2 drams of Fg. patched ball, over a hard greased felt wad. Not much information about on either of these sorts of rifles.

cheers

Heeler

 

[Col. Batguano]

I think the balls are alloyed. I got a whole bunch of ingots of lead from a plumber that said it was way too hard for him to use, which infers that it was made from wheel weights. I cast up about 400 of them last weekend, which ought to be about a lifetime supply for me and that gun. (I do most of my shooting with contemporary pieces rather than risk hurting an original.) I have no ability to test the hardness of the alloy.

Yes the gun itself is cased, but it is not an original Purdey case. It's a Gregory, and is contemporary to the gun, but definitely not original (an original would say Purdey on it). The label itself is pretty tattered and illegible otherwise as well. The label in the case was a paper one that was just slipped in there. the 2 1/2 Dr. load is engraved on the inside of the PB. I used 3Fg which might have been wrong, but it's also what I had on hand.

Another thought is to communicate with Purdey themselves. They already told me who it was made for back in 1858, which is pretty cool in itself. He was a Baronet and an ordained Reverand--again, pretty cool. I also tried contacting the family and the castle to see if they might be interested in reacquiring it from me and got no response.

 

[Heelerau]

Mate, have just pm'd my mate on another forum to see how he loads his two groove rifle. I will get back to you when he does. It might be worth trying a card over powder then a greased hard felt wad, that would save your patches . I found it improved the loading of my bore rifle and helped with the group some.

cheers
Heelerau

 

[fleener]

If my memory serves me correctly, some of the early percussion guns were made with vent holes. Just a left over from the flint days that they thought that they needed.

What size of groups are you getting. I dont think I have ever heard of a belted rifle shooting great or even good groups.

Post some pictures, would love to see it.

Fleener

 

[Griz44Mag]

I have no ability to test the hardness of the alloy.

If you need/want the hardness tested, you are welcome to send me a couple of your cast balls and I will test them. I do a lot of casting from dead soft to .308 rifle bullets for long range. I use a Cabine Tree tester, which I have found to be very accurate. Use the LEE hardness guide to determine the required hardness for a specific application. Richard worked out the tables over a 30 year period of testing, and it just flat works!

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have no ability to test the hardness of the alloy.

The thumbnail test can give a pretty good idea. What is the twist rate in that barrel?

 

[Col. Batguano]

Twist in the barrel seems to be right around 1:70", which seems a bit slow to me, but you have to think the guys at a shop like Purdey knew what they were doing, even 160 years ago. They had built about 5800 guns before they built this one. I'll send you a few RB's when I get a chance. All that stuff is up north at my cabin right now, but it seems to me that my thumb nail didn't dent them too much.

Groups aren't really groups now. Maybe 10" off of center at 10:00 o'clock, and 4" groups with the right barrel, and about half that for the left at 25 yards (4" at 3:00 o'clock, and 3" groups. I think my biggest problem was actually SEEING the sights last weekend. It was a lighting thing mostly, and the gun was probably built for someone half my age with better vision. There was about NO noticeable kick to the gun though. Very pleasant to shoot.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I'll send you a few RB's

:nono: Not to me. The only testing equipment I have for hardness are my thumbnails. :grin:

 

[nhmoose]

pencil set test.

See cast boollits forum

How to use the pencil test for hardness.

Works great and cheap to boot.

 

[Griz44Mag]

pencil set test.

See cast boollits forum

How to use the pencil test for hardness.

Works great and cheap to boot.

That's the spirit moose! Never know for sure when you can guess, right? Over the years I have offered free hardness testing. It's not so critical for low pressure stuff like black powder unless you want to make sure you have dead soft lead and not a pot metal mix, which may look like soft lead, but cast like a turkey t#@d.
I do it for free for anyone that asks. Is that CHEAP enough for you?

 

[Heelerau]

Dear Heeler Ive just written you a long & full reply re the Two grouve loading I find fine but the machine tells me you don't exist but I told it if you didn't exist I wouldn't be writing to you . Chuffing nuisance machine. Any way I said I used 2&1/2 dram powder a rolled 4x2" stopple of wad then a not tightly patched 24 bore belted Jeff Tanner made mould ball finding it exellent in general the winged bullet i made no better . Lynton Mc Kenzie used to load a wad of felt but I reckon the hard felts tend to affect the balls exit wherass the cloth 'stopple ' greased as it is is less likely to effect its departing ball being light . suggest he try that plan, works for me . The shoot video got some odd responses but wait till I do Kipling that should rock them ! When your playing a pa you got to BE the part I reckon .,. Cheers Rudyard
Hope this is some help to you.

Cheers

Heelerau

 

[Col. Batguano]

I would love to try your advice, but I honestly don't understand it. What's a stoppel of wad?