Opinions on scopes and sights.

[Runner]

This one is going to be real simple for me.

If my father needs a scope to hunt and the doc says that his eyes reach a certain threshhold of need, he should be able to ge that permit with a doctors approval. If his eyes don't pass the requirement, than he should not have one. In general they should be a no-no.

This one is not as easy.

If you agree on the limited permit for those with vision problems, what should the power and size be limited to? Sure gramps needs a scope, but does he need a range finding 16 power 50 mm light gathering monster to be able to make an ethical shot within legal shooting hours?

Neither is this one.

Should peep sights be allowed?

 

[tg]

I would think peeps could be allowed IF they were of a type that was around in the pre-cartrideg era, same for bullets but it would be a real chore to figure what was and wasn't so it may be best to not allow any bullets or peeps to simplify things else we are back into the mix of old and new and the backdoor that approach opens, the main point is to not have a traditional/primitive season then try and tweek every aspect into as close to modern weapons as posssible, using the evolution theory ( they had peeps on crossbows in 1400 so a modern micro click multi aperture 1000yd high tech peep is traditional)

 

[shmrck1]

Runner,
Rather than get into a PC or not PC controversey
i will PM you my thoughts and keep in mind i'm 60 years
young....
snake-eyes

 

[rabbit03]

Hey Runner

I feel that if your dad still wants to hunt that is great! There should be provisions for folks with impaired vision too. After all they do crossbows for impaired during the archery season!

As for the light gathering thing well he should be able to just know when it is time to quit shooting by the time on his watch. If it were me I would try to hunt with him or near him to help out especially if the vision is part of the problem, safety should always be of a concern. The life you save may be your own, LOLOL. Not really funny I suppose if you hear of some of the accidents that do happen. But you know what I mean.

I would defintely look into it and perhaps they could have a limitation of the scope power and if a person could read a sign or something through that particular power then let him go. My thoughts on it. Perhaps a 9X would be the limit. And after all there are lots of limits in life and when it comes to using a lethal weapon like a car (oops I didnt mean car I meant rifle, silly rabbit cars don't kill people guns do) yeah right, there should be a limit also.

rabbit03

 

[Tahquamenon]

I'm of the thought that if you were going to have a tradtionaly styled ML season, then fixed steel or iron open sights would be the rule.

If an individual requires magnification, they should obtain that through perscribed vision correction(glasses) and not enhanced weapon capability (scopes and optics).

I'm not in favor of any optic enhancements. I suppose if there were to be, then 1x non magnifying should be the rule with say a permit as you have mentioned.

:m2c:

 

[Stumpkiller]

That's a tough one. As a fellow hunter: if gramps can't see well enough to pick out a deer how do I know he can distinguish between me and a buck in low light?

Americans are big hearted and make the wrong decisions for all the right reasons. I'm not wanting to be the one to tell Little Timmy he can't go hunting because he's blind and needs an ATV to haul his respirator. But, as soon as we make an exception for him we get Big Bubba with a bad ticker and back because he's 200 lbs overweight who wants the same exemptions.

NY allows crossbows for the disabled, but they have to be released with a blow tube. You don't get an allowance to use one just because you aren't 100% able. A 90% let-off compound is already a prostetic device, anyway. As is a 70%, or a 50%. Just varying degrees of mechanical advantage.

If the state has a primative season, and you can't operate a primative weapon, then may we recommend our lovely regular season?

Sorry, life is hard. A deer with a broken leg doesn't get a corrected time head start when the wolves appear.

When my time comes and my sight fails I wonder if my mind will change?

Two weeks ago I went to a birthday party for a friend and neighbor who was upset that he hadn't been able to get out deer hunting for the past two years. He is now 98 years old. :hatsoff:

 

I'm quite sure Missouri allows scopes on muzzleloaders so he doesn't need a permit from his doctor. Unless, of course, he doesn't live in Missouri.

If he's gonna do it 4 power is plenty.

Vic

 

[Runner]

Of course they allow them now. He uses a 4 power 40 mm scope on his inline. The basic question is about if they should be allowed, and if yes, when if we could make the rules.

 

[roundball]

That's a tough one. As a fellow hunter: if gramps can't see well enough to pick out a deer how do I know he can distinguish between me and a buck in low light?

Americans are big hearted and make the wrong decisions for all the right reasons. I'm not wanting to be the one to tell Little Timmy he can't go hunting because he's blind and needs an ATV to haul his respirator. But, as soon as we make an exception for him we get Big Bubba with a bad ticker and back because he's 200 lbs overweight who wants the same exemptions.

NY allows crossbows for the disabled, but they have to be released with a blow tube. You don't get an allowance to use one just because you aren't 100% able. A 90% let-off compound is already a prostetic device, anyway. As is a 70%, or a 50%. Just varying degrees of mechanical advantage.

If the state has a primative season, and you can't operate a primative weapon, then may we recommend our lovely regular season?

Sorry, life is hard. A deer with a broken leg doesn't get a corrected time head start when the wolves appear.

When my time comes and my sight fails I wonder if my mind will change?

Two weeks ago I went to a birthday party for a friend and neighbor who was upset that he hadn't been able to get out deer hunting for the past two years. He is now 98 years old. :hatsoff:

Very well put Stumpy...I can't improve on the way you've laid it out...would just have to find different words to say the same thing...

 

[BS]

OR

You won't hurt any of the modern production guns with a scope, but don't put one on a Flint Lock, just don't look right!

 

[Runner]

Well, gramp's eyes are only bad at arms length. He can count the legs on a fly at 20 feet. He just can't see the sights on the rifle thru his lower bifocals and the target clearly at the same time. I did not say anything about a blind man or about taking a person inappropriate to be hunting to the woods. This is where things get thorny. By the way, he may be seventy but he is not helpless!

 

[waltcowan]

go with a fixed 4 or six power. if his range is under a 100 yards try a red dot scope. also, have him get a new pair glasses each year. i've seen guys with scrips that were older than me. somtimes one must put aside p.c. in order to over come health problems. eace:

 

[Runner]

Walt, this question isn't about his specific circumstance. He has been to special doc's tio try and get corrective lenses for hunting. This is a long term 30 year problem for him. I am just using him as an example of why I believe that there has to be an allowance made for this kind of situation.

The question is, do we make such allowances to the rules possible or do we go strictly hardline traditonal? In the old days, I guess he would have been limited to a smoothbore and shot. The game appropriate to that woul dhave been his only hunting. He would have become a fisher I guess. Today, the low powered scope allows those people to continue to hunt. My belief is that we almost have to allow this with a doctors verification.

 

[musketman]

I am surprised no one said anything about the Civil War style brass tube telescopic sight... (seen below)

 

[Tahquamenon]

I am surprised no one said anything about the Civil War style brass tube telescopic sight... (seen below)

I would have, but my bullet, bomb, flame - proof vest is presently being repaired and dry-cleaned. :crackup:

The problem I see with the telescopic is trying to figure out which style ML's it would have been appropriate to?
Theorhetically, someone could have installed the telescope sight on any ML that was available in the 1800's to include long rifle flints and pretty much anything. But it would not be the more common. Plus, if you allow those as optic enhancement, it's a pretty tough argument to dis-allow all other types of optical enhancement.

:imo:

 

[Stumpkiller]

The only one of those CW telescopic sights I ever tried was back in the 80's. I think it was about 4X and had about a basketball sized field of view at 100 yards. It was like looking through a soda straw and needed a solar flare to gather enough light to see the target across a field. Can't imagine how it would have been at 8:00AM in a cedar swamp on an overcast day.

Probably the modern repros are better than that one. Looked neat on the rifled musket, though.

 

[oomcurt]

I dunno..I am really divided on this. Now, I'm dragging my 60's and pushin my 70's so this is something I have been giving a lot of thought to. To be honest..if we allow this, then we have to allow those dang atv's that are advertised..and snowmobiles. Yeah, I know it's tough but if it came to a vote..I guess I would vote against it. Something else I've been wondering about. Far as I know what would be so terribly wrong with putting a scope on that rifle and then hunting in the regular season? For years I was a modern deer hunter and at least where I hunted it would appear to not be a handicap. As it is now, all I own is muzzle loader...and I sure would have no reservations as to hunting with it in the genereal season.

 

[waltcowan]

Walt, this question isn't about his specific circumstance. He has been to special doc's tio try and get corrective lenses for hunting. This is a long term 30 year problem for him. I am just using him as an example of why I believe that there has to be an allowance made for this kind of situation.

The question is, do we make such allowances to the rules possible or do we go strictly hardline traditonal? In the old days, I guess he would have been limited to a smoothbore and shot. The game appropriate to that woul dhave been his only hunting. He would have become a fisher I guess. Today, the low powered scope allows those people to continue to hunt. My belief is that we almost have to allow this with a doctors verification.

i'm with you all the way on this one. in maryland one needed a doctors slip to use scopes in the ml season. during the regular season scopes were allowed. a few years ago the rules changed to allow them during ml season.

 

Runner,.... To be honest, I'm aginst scopes on traditional muzzleloaders (unless of course, it's a traditional CW scope on a traditional CW rifle with "documented useage"), as for a "note" from the doctor, I'm still undecided.

I'm far-sighted myself (seem's to come with old age), and I have progressively moved my rear right forwards over the years, plus I told the eye-doc I wanted shoot'n glasses without the bifocals and I can still see good enuff to hunt this way.

If my eyes git any worse I'll probaly fore-go the rear-sight altogether, and hunt with my NWTG smoothbore and limit my shots to 50-60 yards max. (ther ain't no way I'm put'n a scope on one'a my guns.)

YMHS
rollingb

 

It is a tough question obviously with no pat answer. Runner, I apologize for missing the intent of your question. Can I blame it on a brain cramp?......hehe

I didn't see any response to the peep sight question, unless I simply missed it which is entirely possible.

Yes, I believe peeps should be allowed as they go back a long way. Personally I much prefer a good peep sight to a scope and no other sight is as quick to bring into play. With the correct sights very good work can be done up to 300 yards on game. Obviously I don't mean muzzleloaders shooting PRB, but with proper sights and good conditions I wouldn't hesitate taking a very confident shot on deer sized game at that distance with either of my Sharps. HOWEVER.....proper sights being the operative words, it would just about require target quality sights and they generally aren't suitable as overall hunting sights. I'm not saying use of target sights can't be or hasn't been done, I'm sure it has. For most hunting conditions there are more suitable sights. Sorry for getting off topic.....peeps on muzzleloaders is fine with me.

Vic