Oops... bought a non firing Replica

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ajbennettnc

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Thinking I got a decent deal but knowing what I was buying would need some work, I purchased what I thought I knew to be a fireable Miroku/Ultra Hi version of an 1805 Harper's Ferry pistol repro. The lock appeared to be the same as the locks of my old Japanese .67 pistol, and the barrel breech looks identical. I noticed it was stamped "Tower" and thought simply that somebody had swapped out the orginal lock with a replacement. Years ago, I handled a pistol that looked identical to this one, but with the standard Miroku/Ultra hi low eared buttcap instead of the tined buttcap that real Harper's Ferry pistols had. The one on the "gun" I'm discussing is sort of an in-between, but I assumed that was just a variation that Ultra Hi made.

When the pistol arrived, I was tickled. Although of course it wouldn't be historically accurate, I though it would be fun to shoot, and I got a deal on it that I couldn't pass up. I should have passed it up, lol.

I noticed the vent was missing, but figured it just meant I'd had to drill one. Not too big a deal. Then, I dropped the rammer down the bore and it stuck out 2 inches or so past where it should.
Turns out, the bore was never fully drilled. I take this as evidence that the Japanese British style pistols were made by cutting out the whole barrel shape tang and all, drilling the bore and vent in a blind drilling situation. Safe enough with reasonable loads so long as there's enough metal at the breech (like the early cast handcannons.)
Don't know what to do now. The lock seems to be functional, but not hardened as it would not spark. I plan to harden the parts and try to get a spark out of it, and finish boring out the pan to a proper shape. Might make an ad looking for a barrel from the firing version of the gun. Maybe I can find a machinist to finish boring the barrel?
Thoughts amd advice appreciated. May this be a lesson to us all to make sure you can see a vent hole in a picture before buying a gun online. I have kicked myself multiple times. I should have known when the seller listed it as replica, but in my snobbery I thought that they had simply listed it wrong. I was humbled. Perhaps this will be a neat project nonetheless, and at least others might learn from my folly.
 

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How do you know that 2 inches isn't powder and ball? Does the steel ramrod clink and bounce off the breech or does it go thud? Did you pull the lock to see if the internal parts look toyish or well made?

Glue a bit of strong magnet to a stick and drop it in there. Or find one of those extendable magnet stick things that mechanics use.

If the magnet sticks it's an unfinished steel breech.

If it doesn't stick it's probably lead.


P.S. The cock has sharp stippling to secure a leather wrapped flint. Seems strange to put that detail on a toy pistol. And why would the Japanese serialize a toy pistol?
 
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How do you know that 2 inches isn't powder and ball? Does the steel ramrod clink and bounce off the breech or does it go thud? Did you pull the lock to see if the internal parts look toyish or well made?

Glue a bit of strong magnet to a stick and drop it in there. Or find one of those extendable magnet stick things that mechanics use.

If the magnet sticks it's an unfinished steel breech.

If it doesn't stick it's probably lead.


P.S. The cock has sharp stippling to secure a leather wrapped flint. Seems strange to put that detail on a toy pistol. And why would the Japanese serialize a toy pistol?

Good points Springer. I am sure it's not powder and ball. It bounced when the rammer was pinged, and shining a flashlight in shows the obstruction to have 100 percent contact with the sides of the bore. I will try the magnet idea out as well; good idea.
I agree that it's weird that it has a serial number. That's another thing that fooled me in the pictures I saw on the auction sight.
As for the lock, it is rougher made than the locks on my Japanese firing pistols were by far, although the parts look identical and just need some cleaning up and possibly hardening because the sear's nose seems to have shorn off a little already. I'll pull it again soon and take a picture. Also, it has the same side plate, trigger guard, and trigger as my old Ultra hi pistols. The Jaws do hold a flint well and by all I can tell it could make a decent lock after some work. The frizzen doesn't close well enough, and I think it's something to do with the toe of the frizzen.
 
Before drilling, you might put a flame to the barrel first. A friend ended up with one of these, and there was a crack in the lock plate. He asked me to weld it up, so I fired up the oxy-acy torch to do the job. In less than five seconds, the plate melted, being made of pot metal! Your barrel could well be the same thing, and better treated like a sore pecker.
 
Waksupi, thanks for the forewarning! I'll consider trying that flame method. I don't have but a propane torch, but that might give me some indication still of what kind of metal it is.
Timber Wolf,
I am also considering your advice. I've got enough irons in the fire. Maybe ebay is the place for this thing to go!
 
I agree that it's weird that it has a serial number. That's another thing that fooled me in the pictures I saw on the auction sight.
As for the lock, it is rougher made than the locks on my Japanese firing pistols were by far, although the parts look identical and just need some cleaning up and possibly hardening because the sear's nose seems to have shorn off a little already. I'll pull it again soon and take a picture. Also, it has the same side plate, trigger guard, and trigger as my old Ultra hi pistols. The Jaws do hold a flint well and by all I can tell it could make a decent lock after some work. The frizzen doesn't close well enough, and I think it's something to do with the toe of the frizzen.

Just like a pistol I once owned, but it was made with a touchhole OR the previous owner drilled one, how does one tell?

I'm pretty sure that was simply poor quality control. It was made for the Bicentennial I'll bet, and since it didn't shoot, the original owner didn't care.

LD
 
Thinking I got a decent deal but knowing what I was buying would need some work, I purchased what I thought I knew to be a fireable Miroku/Ultra Hi version of an 1805 Harper's Ferry pistol repro. The lock appeared to be the same as the locks of my old Japanese .67 pistol, and the barrel breech looks identical. I noticed it was stamped "Tower" and thought simply that somebody had swapped out the orginal lock with a replacement. Years ago, I handled a pistol that looked identical to this one, but with the standard Miroku/Ultra hi low eared buttcap instead of the tined buttcap that real Harper's Ferry pistols had. The one on the "gun" I'm discussing is sort of an in-between, but I assumed that was just a variation that Ultra Hi made.

When the pistol arrived, I was tickled. Although of course it wouldn't be historically accurate, I though it would be fun to shoot, and I got a deal on it that I couldn't pass up. I should have passed it up, lol.

I noticed the vent was missing, but figured it just meant I'd had to drill one. Not too big a deal. Then, I dropped the rammer down the bore and it stuck out 2 inches or so past where it should.
Turns out, the bore was never fully drilled. I take this as evidence that the Japanese British style pistols were made by cutting out the whole barrel shape tang and all, drilling the bore and vent in a blind drilling situation. Safe enough with reasonable loads so long as there's enough metal at the breech (like the early cast handcannons.)
Don't know what to do now. The lock seems to be functional, but not hardened as it would not spark. I plan to harden the parts and try to get a spark out of it, and finish boring out the pan to a proper shape. Might make an ad looking for a barrel from the firing version of the gun. Maybe I can find a machinist to finish boring the barrel?
Thoughts amd advice appreciated. May this be a lesson to us all to make sure you can see a vent hole in a picture before buying a gun online. I have kicked myself multiple times. I should have known when the seller listed it as replica, but in my snobbery I thought that they had simply listed it wrong. I was humbled. Perhaps this will be a neat project nonetheless, and at least others might learn from my folly.

Paper weight
 
Thinking I got a decent deal but knowing what I was buying would need some work, I purchased what I thought I knew to be a fireable Miroku/Ultra Hi version of an 1805 Harper's Ferry pistol repro. The lock appeared to be the same as the locks of my old Japanese .67 pistol, and the barrel breech looks identical. I noticed it was stamped "Tower" and thought simply that somebody had swapped out the orginal lock with a replacement. Years ago, I handled a pistol that looked identical to this one, but with the standard Miroku/Ultra hi low eared buttcap instead of the tined buttcap that real Harper's Ferry pistols had. The one on the "gun" I'm discussing is sort of an in-between, but I assumed that was just a variation that Ultra Hi made.

When the pistol arrived, I was tickled. Although of course it wouldn't be historically accurate, I though it would be fun to shoot, and I got a deal on it that I couldn't pass up. I should have passed it up, lol.

I noticed the vent was missing, but figured it just meant I'd had to drill one. Not too big a deal. Then, I dropped the rammer down the bore and it stuck out 2 inches or so past where it should.
Turns out, the bore was never fully drilled. I take this as evidence that the Japanese British style pistols were made by cutting out the whole barrel shape tang and all, drilling the bore and vent in a blind drilling situation. Safe enough with reasonable loads so long as there's enough metal at the breech (like the early cast handcannons.)
Don't know what to do now. The lock seems to be functional, but not hardened as it would not spark. I plan to harden the parts and try to get a spark out of it, and finish boring out the pan to a proper shape. Might make an ad looking for a barrel from the firing version of the gun. Maybe I can find a machinist to finish boring the barrel?
Thoughts amd advice appreciated. May this be a lesson to us all to make sure you can see a vent hole in a picture before buying a gun online. I have kicked myself multiple times. I should have known when the seller listed it as replica, but in my snobbery I thought that they had simply listed it wrong. I was humbled. Perhaps this will be a neat project nonetheless, and at least others might learn from my folly.
Not to be nosey, but what did you pay for that? It's actually a pretty nice non firing replica. I have a few and a couple stage guns as well.
 
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