Oops... bought a non firing Replica

[2 shots]

i think a magnet would tell if its steel or pot metal i was left like that for a reason. might be a defect in the barrel ., i figure why would the manufacturer leave it like that if they could have finished what they were doing and sell it for more money???? im of the mind of dont mess with it, you already learned one lesson, do you need to learn another more serious one ??

 

[maillemaker]

It's pretty clear from the pictures that the barrel is some kind of steel, owing to the rust.

This looks like one of those "manufactured to not be a gun" things. Who knows what is down the barrel. Could be someone tried loading it. Could be the barrel was never fully bored out (but how was the breech installed?).

Personally, I'd sell it off as a wall hanger decoration.

 

[ajbennettnc]

Not to be nosey, but what did you pay for that? It's actually a pretty nice non firing replica. I have a few and a couple stage guns as well.

I'm alright with sharing that information, that others might take warning and beware lol. I teach personal finance as a high school social studies teacher, so I'm not offended by your inquiry. After buyers premium it cost me around $140 before shipping. That was just about the most I'd've paid for it even had it been in a firing state though, so that's why part of me wants to make it function. If nothing else, I want to make the lock spark so it could be used in another project. It is a purty object, so maybe it'll find a home with some theatre production or just on somebody's curio shelf.

Thanks all y'all for your ideas and inputs. I'll eventually figure out what to do and update this post with whatever I decide to do with it.

 

[Juice Jaws]

Hard to believe getting this replica shooting is even being considered. It’s a replica, like something you buy at a toy store made of metal never intended to withstand the pressure of exploding gun powder.

Like I said , paper weight

 

[TFoley]

Waksupi, thanks for the forewarning! I'll consider trying that flame method. I don't have but a propane torch, but that might give me some indication still of what kind of metal it is.
Timber Wolf,
I am also considering your advice. I've got enough irons in the fire. Maybe ebay is the place for this thing to go!

Make sure the barrel is point in a safe direction when you do that. It just MIGHT have a load, especially one wrapped in aluminum foil like the TWO we found in a nice old shotgun.

 

[rickystl]

Long ago, I remember reading that Miroku made some of their Tower and Harper's Ferry replica pistols in this non-firing format. The parts are all likely the same as the shooting guns. Just the bore not drilled through all the way and lacking a touch hole. In this case, I would double check to make sure the breech plug is threaded to the barrel. It probably is. The Harper's is just a different variation of the Tower pistol. If the breech plug is threaded, it can be removed. Maybe all that's needed is to drill out the extra inch or so of extra metal in the bore to equal the nominal bore size (?). Bobby Hoyt could probably easily do this. But with shipping the barrel back and forth, and the minor labor it might add another $100.00 to the cost. But that might be worth the cost if you want to keep the gun and shoot it. Otherwise, might be better selling it at a small loss, and calling it lesson learned. Most of us, including myself, have been bitten at some point. I won't consider any flintlock without seing a close-up photo of the vent hole and pan alignment.

Rick

 

[ajbennettnc]

Long ago, I remember reading that Miroku made some of their Tower and Harper's Ferry replica pistols in this non-firing format. The parts are all likely the same as the shooting guns. Just the bore not drilled through all the way and lacking a touch hole. In this case, I would double check to make sure the breech plug is threaded to the barrel. It probably is. The Harper's is just a different variation of the Tower pistol. If the breech plug is threaded, it can be removed. Maybe all that's needed is to drill out the extra inch or so of extra metal in the bore to equal the nominal bore size (?). Bobby Hoyt could probably easily do this. But with shipping the barrel back and forth, and the minor labor it might add another $100.00 to the cost. But that might be worth the cost if you want to keep the gun and shoot it. Otherwise, might be better selling it at a small loss, and calling it lesson learned. Most of us, including myself, have been bitten at some point. I won't consider any flintlock without seing a close-up photo of the vent hole and pan alignment.

Rick

Thanks Rick! I'll remove the barrel and see about the plug. I assumed there was no plug in these and that they were just bored out sort of like a early hand cannon. Do you know if the Miroku/Ultra Hi pistol plugs are like modern Indian repro breech plugs, whereas the plug has a breech sized flang to it in front of the tang?

 

[rickystl]

Thanks Rick! I'll remove the barrel and see about the plug. I assumed there was no plug in these. Do you know if the Miroku/Ultra Hi pistol plugs are like modern Indian repro breech plugs, whereas the plug has a breech sized flang to it in front of the tang?

I think (??) the barrels have a typical flint style, threaded breech plug. But I can't remember. My Miroku Tower pistol was from the late 1960's or early 1970's. Have no idea what the breech plugs look like on the India made guns ?

Rick

 

[Dave Dworshak]

I wouldn't trust trying to make it fire.

 

[ajbennettnc]

I'll try and get a picture this weekend of the plug of my Indian LLP musket to show what I mean.

 

[ajbennettnc]

I think (??) the barrels have a typical flint style, threaded breech plug. But I can't remember. My Miroku Tower pistol was from the late 1960's or early 1970's. Have no idea what the breech plugs look like on the India made guns ?

Rick

Here's a pic of what I mean by a flanged plug. Screenshot of from a post by another forum member of an indian made musket. Every Indian made repro I've handled (I've handled 4 different styles from both Loyalist and Veteran Arms) has had this type of plug. The Indian plugs are threaded, as seen in videos on YouTube, but they also have a little chamber to them, sort of like what i believe is called a patent breech. Any how, I know from Japanese made pistols I used to own that there no chamber, but I have struggled to find the line where a plug meets the barrel. Gonna do a deeper investigation of this replica I've got this weekend if I get time.

 

[springfield art]

Thinking I got a decent deal but knowing what I was buying would need some work, I purchased what I thought I knew to be a fireable Miroku/Ultra Hi version of an 1805 Harper's Ferry pistol repro. The lock appeared to be the same as the locks of my old Japanese .67 pistol, and the barrel breech looks identical. I noticed it was stamped "Tower" and thought simply that somebody had swapped out the orginal lock with a replacement. Years ago, I handled a pistol that looked identical to this one, but with the standard Miroku/Ultra hi low eared buttcap instead of the tined buttcap that real Harper's Ferry pistols had. The one on the "gun" I'm discussing is sort of an in-between, but I assumed that was just a variation that Ultra Hi made.

When the pistol arrived, I was tickled. Although of course it wouldn't be historically accurate, I though it would be fun to shoot, and I got a deal on it that I couldn't pass up. I should have passed it up, lol.

I noticed the vent was missing, but figured it just meant I'd had to drill one. Not too big a deal. Then, I dropped the rammer down the bore and it stuck out 2 inches or so past where it should.
Turns out, the bore was never fully drilled. I take this as evidence that the Japanese British style pistols were made by cutting out the whole barrel shape tang and all, drilling the bore and vent in a blind drilling situation. Safe enough with reasonable loads so long as there's enough metal at the breech (like the early cast handcannons.)
Don't know what to do now. The lock seems to be functional, but not hardened as it would not spark. I plan to harden the parts and try to get a spark out of it, and finish boring out the pan to a proper shape. Might make an ad looking for a barrel from the firing version of the gun. Maybe I can find a machinist to finish boring the barrel?
Thoughts amd advice appreciated. May this be a lesson to us all to make sure you can see a vent hole in a picture before buying a gun online. I have kicked myself multiple times. I should have known when the seller listed it as replica, but in my snobbery I thought that they had simply listed it wrong. I was humbled. Perhaps this will be a neat project nonetheless, and at least others might learn from my folly.

Yeah, I was almost fooled by one of these; was examining at a swap meet a similar pistol, then was told about the "dummy" barrel!

 

[springfield art]

Long ago, I remember reading that Miroku made some of their Tower and Harper's Ferry replica pistols in this non-firing format. The parts are all likely the same as the shooting guns. Just the bore not drilled through all the way and lacking a touch hole. In this case, I would double check to make sure the breech plug is threaded to the barrel. It probably is. The Harper's is just a different variation of the Tower pistol. If the breech plug is threaded, it can be removed. Maybe all that's needed is to drill out the extra inch or so of extra metal in the bore to equal the nominal bore size (?). Bobby Hoyt could probably easily do this. But with shipping the barrel back and forth, and the minor labor it might add another $100.00 to the cost. But that might be worth the cost if you want to keep the gun and shoot it. Otherwise, might be better selling it at a small loss, and calling it lesson learned. Most of us, including myself, have been bitten at some point. I won't consider any flintlock without seing a close-up photo of the vent hole and pan alignment.

Rick

Yeah, I don't think, if I was Bobby, that would be a good idea. Lesson learned all around, and not that much money after all.

 

[ajbennettnc]

I won't bother Mr. Hoyt with this one. I am really thinking it's gonna get parted out and the barrel used as the aforementioned paperweight, lol. I'm wanting to learn how to harden parts with my forge, so I think the lock of this'll be useful in that tinkering endeavor sometime. I just wanna see what I can mark spark. I have some other projects (Salvage CVA/Jukar Colonial pistol) needing some brass furniture anyways, so I'll find purpose for it. The trigger, buttcap, and rammer are fully functional at least .

 

[ajbennettnc]

Update: removed the barrel. Looks like a threaded breech plug with welded on tang. Also, I got it to spark. Upon further examination, the cock was being impeded by the stock; the cutout want far enough back. There was already a gap in the shoddy lock inletting, so with a pocket knife I lengthened the cutout. Frizzen wasn't gouged, so I think it's hardened enough for at least a while.
My thoughts are leaning towards finding the real version of the barrel or finding a Japanese dragoon/sea service hybrid thing like I've had before and then cutting that down to fit the stock to make a coat pistol.

 

[64Springer]

Welp.

Someone made certain that someone would never have access to that breech area.

And that stinks.

 

[ajbennettnc]

Welp.

Someone made certain that someone would never have access to that breech area.

And that stink.

It does indeed. I feel like the breech plug was made round and then sawed off once fitted. I believe this barrel will remain a paper weight, though I reckon if a touchhole was drilled where the face stops I could make a hand gonne type Serpentine Arquebus thingy out of it, but we'll see. I am heavily leaning towards interesting barrel shaped paperweight for my desk, lol.

 

[JEBMs]

My daddy told me Education is expensive, sometimes it takes $$$ and sometimes it takes bandages and sometimes it takes both. Probably best to stop at $$$

 

[sheriff john]

There were (and still are) very good reasons for proof houses - starting in olden days. Just sayin' .....

 

[Dwight Dutton]

Can you just replace the barrel? Sounds like everything else works ok.