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No Muzzleloading Rifles for Small Game on National Refuges??

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Problem Child

40 Cal.
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
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I was looking at the small game regulations for the National Refuges here in Mississippi.The only weapons that are allowed(for small game)are,"Shotguns with 6 shot or smaller and .22 rimfires".No mention of muzzleloaders.I skimmed over a few more Refuges in other states and it was pretty much the same.

Why no Muzzleloaders??
 
you can load #6 shot in a Muzzle loader. Notice they do not say what action type can be used to shoot 22lr. As they have not designated or restricted action type for the .22 then there is no designation or restriction on the action type for the shotgun. Same way as you can use a bolt action, semi auto, trombone, or lever 22 you can use a percussion, pump, bolt, break action shotgun.

BTW I Am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV.
 
The idiots who write the regulations have little to no clue about firearms technology. And they won't unless people who do have such knowledge write to them, inform them and complain about it.

We run into the same ludicrous ignorance with the state game agencies. In PA, they recognize only centerfire, rim fire and muzzleloader guns for hunting large or small game. Anything else is taboo. No Ferguson flintlocks, not Greeners, No Burnsides, no percussion Sharps etc. No needle fire or pin fire rifles, No cap and ball revolvers, Not that they consciously chose to outlaw such weapons. The folks who wrote the laws and regulations were so wet behind the ears that they didn't realize those other types of firearms ever existed. They outlawed rim fires for large game, even though some rim fires (41 Swiss, 56 Spencer, 38 ExL Ballard) are far more powerful than many of the little centerfires that are legal for deer.

They illogically class two types of firearms by type of ignition, Centerfire and rim fire, and a third class where the gun loads. When a person points out that these classes can overlap, they go into defense mode. For instance, that some in-lines are also centerfire, or that some centerfire guns were built to be loaded from the muzzle as well, (Harry Pope's rifles) Some Flintlocks are also breech loaders (Ferguson)

The only way anything changes is by writing, informing and lobbying for change.
 
That is the problem when you have bureacrats who do not hunt or shoot making the regulations for hunting and shooting.

What a shame. In some states a wildlife refuge may be the only place where one could have an opportunity to hunt outside of spending a lot of money on a lease or club.
 
bigbore442001 said:
That is the problem when you have bureacrats who do not hunt or shoot making the regulations for hunting and shooting.

Oh...how I know this so well.I have had several run-in's with the local National Forest bureacrats.I came to the conclusion that most jobs are filled by the "buddy" system.
They don't realize they are Public servants.
 
That seems to be the attitude of this generation for those who serve in government. They believe that we should serve them instead of the other way around.
 
Problem Child said:
I came to the conclusion that most jobs are filled by the "buddy" system.
They don't realize they are Public servants.

Last year I was looking hard at joining a lease that bordered the Okefenokee Swamp NWR. While I was messing around there I got a chance to talk to one of the higher ups at Okee along with the guy who had run this lease for like 30 years.

What I took away is that, while the state game and fish guys are almost all hunters and fishermen a lot of the federal guys are bunny hugger types who join envisioning themselves at Yellowstone helping study Bears but they end up at a lesser known location effectively being a Game Warden then they hate it and think it is their mission to protect the wildlife from us.
 
That is the problem when you have bureacrats who do not hunt or shoot making the regulations for hunting and shooting.

This is a problem all over (except in beautiful british columbia :v )

Even though we have some pretty well written regs something I have discovered is that a lot of times regs are written in legalize. Us common folk are not used to reading this style of writing and often beefs crop up that are not there to begin with ( not saying that the above examples aren't glaring examples of stupidity) I for instance went 10 years thinking it was illegal to bait Deer, moose and elk :idunno: Turns out that is legal. I also spent years thinking the end of big game hunting was the same as waterfowl in stead of a complete hour before and after sunrise/sunset later :redface:

I cannot guarantee it but I suspect the original poster fell victim to the trap of reading regs like directions and not like regs. The other problem that crops up is in the translation between regulation and the guide book that gets published. Often there is some word smithing that happens which leads to confusion. Heck sometimes those bunny huggers above will go so far as to leave out things on purpose, add an x in a column where it does'nt belong or not send a change in till after the regs are printed!

If your local game club/range etc has a member who is lawyer it really pays to corner them over a beer and go through the reg summary with them you'd be surprised what you'll learn.

The other thing that pays dividends is not to let other peoples pessimism and interpretations form your understanding of the law. Some guys have been known to use 'explaining' as a way of reducing competition and some guys are just plain wrong.
 
Tony: On the State WMA's in Mississippi, the regulations do state that for small game, you may use a muzzleloader no larger than .40 caliber. Don't know about the Federal refuges.
Bill
 
You have no idea how right you are. Having been in the profession in the past I can tell you it's not hard to notice. It's common knowledge and it occurs at both the national and state level.
 
Pawbill said:
Tony: On the State WMA's in Mississippi, the regulations do state that for small game, you may use a muzzleloader no larger than .40 caliber. Don't know about the Federal refuges.
Bill

Hey Bill,how are you? We had thought about Squirrel hunting at Noxubee refuge since Deer season has ended there.
The regulations there state...."Small Game - No-cost permit required. Weapons for small game are restricted to shotguns with shot size no larger than No. 2 or rifles no larger than .22 standard caliber (.22 magnums not allowed). State bag limits apply."
http://www.fws.gov/noxubee/noxhunt.html

Yeah I'm aware of the WMA regulations.That's where I hunt 95% of the time.I don't know who had the "40 cal or smaller" added to the WMA regulations,but I'm glad they did :thumbsup:
 
Tony- I was responsible for that about three years ago. They had written the small game firearms regulation exactly as you quoted from the refuge rules. This was just the last battle in a long war with the game & fish Dept. I have finally decided to just do what I want & to hell with them. I have reached the age where I don't have to buy a liscense, so I'll go my way & let them go theirs.
Bill
 
Pawbill said:
Tony- I was responsible for that about three years ago. They had written the small game firearms regulation exactly as you quoted from the refuge rules. This was just the last battle in a long war with the game & fish Dept. I have finally decided to just do what I want & to hell with them. I have reached the age where I don't have to buy a liscense, so I'll go my way & let them go theirs.
Bill

I kinda figured you had something to do with it. :thumbsup:

I'm very glad you did. :hatsoff:
 
PC,
If that is the regulation in Ohio I have been
violating it for at least 30years.
Can someone explain their reason behind this
regulation???? Modern S/G over M/L S/G?????
Modern .22R/F over .32 B/P????? :idunno:
 
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