NMLRA Western Shoot

[akapennypincher]

Fingers tired from shooting?

 

..........:yakyak:

I know, some people just can't let go of the past. The whole world was different "20 years ago", but some people refuse to move on.

 

[akapennypincher]

Maybe we should forget things like what happened 9/11/01. I have a very long memory, I recall the good, and bad in my life, thank goodness.

Also we can learn a lot from mistakes in the past.

 

I have a very long memory, I recall the good, and bad in my life, thank goodness.

Also we can learn a lot from mistakes in the past.

I agree - learn and MOVE ON, but people get tired of hearing the same horse beaten repeatedly.
:v

 

[akapennypincher]

I have moved on to the ranks of non members, but I do like going to the WNS to shop for supplies.

But when a person ask a questions I have knowledge about I fell it is good to give them answer, and a share the history of how come, and why.

I am still wait to hear if another WNS will be held in 2011, or if this yeas was the last one.

I thought someone would have made it to the meeting Saturday PM.

 

[shortstring]

I flew out to the WNS the first year that it was held.(from MI) Not a bad shoot. A lot of traders as has been mentioned. A fair number of shooters. It seemed like there were a lot of us from the east competing. So here's a question. This thought is born out of something that Chuck Leonard used to say. Chuck had land in Colorado & lived in MI & was a rather serious BP shooter. But he always allowed that people in the west were more interested in the rendezvous, camping aspect of our sport than in competing, line matches, ect. So is this true? And if it is could this be a factor in the decline of the WNS? Looking at the membership of the states in that corner of the U.S. I come up with 1500 or so members of the NMLRA that all know about the shoot. Can we assume that they are supporting it by entering the matches, camping, ect.?

 

[fitter]

I went last year. I had a good time but to me it was expensive. $40 just to register to shoot. Now I see it is $30 at Friendship. That seems high as well. I remember paying $1 to register at Friendship in the 70's so it was a shock to me. Turns a lot of other people away as well.We have 2 local rendevous here that get $20 for about a week camping and all.Almost $4 per 5 shot match at the western.Go figure.Gas prices figure into this as well and people just don't have disposable income anymore.

 

[shortstring]

You're right about the money at these shoots. Some times I shoot at Friendship & other times not. About all I shoot anymore is chunk matches. By the time I register & pay for targets & agg. it will cost me around 3 bucks a shot. Depends on what mood my wallet's in.

Paul

 

[akapennypincher]

I flew out to the WNS the first year that it was held.(from MI) Not a bad shoot. A lot of traders as has been mentioned. A fair number of shooters. It seemed like there were a lot of us from the east competing. So here's a question. This thought is born out of something that Chuck Leonard used to say. Chuck had land in Colorado & lived in MI & was a rather serious BP shooter. But he always allowed that people in the west were more interested in the rendezvous, camping aspect of our sport than in competing, line matches, ect. So is this true? And if it is could this be a factor in the decline of the WNS? Looking at the membership of the states in that corner of the U.S. I come up with 1500 or so members of the NMLRA that all know about the shoot. Can we assume that they are supporting it by entering the matches, camping, ect.?

I know the AZ Dept. of Game, and Fish use to charge the NMLRA a FEE of $5.00/Shooter/Day they shot.

So in Black and White a Shooter Shot the 5 Days of the WNS Shoot 25 Bucks of the Registration Shoot Fee was paid to AZ Dept. of Game, and Fish.

There was not many normally shooting Sunday, and Wednesday, and Thursday were also slow days with the Majority of Shooters maybe soothing say THREE DAYS MAX.

Thus the Average per shooter Paid to Game & Fish was 15 Buck out of the 35 Bucks the NMLRA Collect to Register at the WNS.

NMLRA was always on the honor policy to report number of shooter, and this was from Target Sales, Match Entries, Re Entry Sales, and of course the Day the Shooter arrived to compete. Was another tracking device the NMLRA used.

The Ben Avery Facility was a deal for the NMLRA, as besides Daily Shooters Fee, Main Building Rental, Gun Makers Hall building Rental, and a Few Porta Potties, the Shoot would have been a cash cow. Except Friendship Staff Expenses, like Travel, Salaries, Meals, Hotels, Golf for the EVP, etc., etc. Was charge back to the shoot.

Honestly the NMLRA IMHO has never has as long as I have lived in the Phoenix Metro AREA promoted the WNS Shoot or the Sport of Muzzle loading to the population in the Valley of the Sun. That is almost 15 years.

The NMLRA don't not work with the media, have no Pr Programs, and to be honest I think they want the NMLRA to say small insiders club with the real focus on Friendship, and the Friendship facility.

Many people out West bust their BUTTS for the NMLRA supporting the shoot, and giving their time each year volunteering, always with the promises of NEXT YEAR. President Yazel said it, President Fulmer said, and President Rowland said it. Plus many of the BOD who attend the event.

Well as I have said before NEXT YEAR has come, and gone many times. Nothing has change but number of Trader Down, Number of Shooter Down, and NO PR or Media Coverage again in 2010.

Many NMLRA Members in the West have just dropped their memberships as it is apparent that the NMLRA’s Focus appear to be Friendship, and only Friendship!

Last thing I will say is the year like 2000 when the WNS has a huge profit, the PROFIT was not put back in to the next years shoot as seed money to hire a PR Firm, Buy Newspaper Advertising, or? It was taken back to Friendship, and spend on Pet Friendship Projects by the BOD! :grin:

 

[AZ Muzzle]

Why not start a western muzzle loading association and hold several shooting events throughout the year in AZ. The weather supports year round shooting at Ben Avery or Rio Salado.

Be part of a creative solution to western black powder shooting and not a negative voice out west. :idunno:

 

[akapennypincher]

Why not start a western muzzle loading association and hold several shooting events throughout the year in AZ. The weather supports year round shooting at Ben Avery or Rio Salado.

Be part of a creative solution to western black powder shooting and not a negative voice out west. :idunno:

Maybe someone who is young, has time, energy, and a group of followers should do as you said, "start a western muzzle loading association".

I know the staff of Ben Avery is into help promote all shooting sports, and would work with anyone or group in any way they could help.

Someone asked a question, I gave facts I had about the money & shoot history, as I was in the know about the money, and history.

Can not change what has happen in the past it is history.

AMEN

 

[Tkendrick]

Why not start a western muzzle loading association and hold several shooting events throughout the year in AZ. The weather supports year round shooting at Ben Avery or Rio Salado.

Be part of a creative solution to western black powder shooting and not a negative voice out west.

How 'bout the NMLRA do the right thing and change their name to the IMLRA (I=Indiana) and quit pretending that they care about anyone outside their own little clique?

 

[AZ Muzzle]

How 'bout the NMLRA do the right thing and change their name to the IMLRA (I=Indiana) and quit pretending that they care about anyone outside their own little clique?

Stop complaining and do something positive for the sport if you feel you are not being represented by the NMLRA.

If you got the energy to complain then channel that energy into a positive tone and show us how it’s done out west.

Get something started and I will gladly support your new organization or event by attending and participating.

Mark B

 

[shortstring]

AKAPP,
You've always stated that there's people who would want to attend the WNS but don't know about it. At least around here I'm not sure who these folks are. People like you & I are reluctant to spend our money at these functions because of the cost or what ever. The people who bought a gun to hunt with are probably tighter yet. It's a problem that I see the NMLRA dink around with. They've went out of there way to attract the inline hunter with little success as far as I can see. So who are these people that you hope to attract to the WNS? Also in your response you didn't really give any thought as to whether or not there is a fair amount of support from the NMLRA members from AZ, NM, CA, CO, NV, ect. They all know about the shoot & should be there if anybody is going to show up.

Paul

 

[akapennypincher]

AKAPP,
You've always stated that there's people who would want to attend the WNS but don't know about it. At least around here I'm not sure who these folks are. People like you & I are reluctant to spend our money at these functions because of the cost or what ever. The people who bought a gun to hunt with are probably tighter yet. It's a problem that I see the NMLRA dink around with. They've went out of there way to attract the inline hunter with little success as far as I can see. So who are these people that you hope to attract to the WNS? Also in your response you didn't really give any thought as to whether or not there is a fair amount of support from the NMLRA members from AZ, NM, CA, CO, NV, ect. They all know about the shoot & should be there if anybody is going to show up.

Paul

The who that is going to be attracted if the Media Advertises it is the same group of people that come to other events for a first time. SASS has their Winter Range Annually at Ben Avery, the people come, and fill on of the parking lots in droves, SASS Charges $5.00 a CAR to Park KACHING, the Traders sell all kinds of Stuff to theses same people who paid to park KACHING, some become interested in SASS, and Join. The number of cars for the weekend is like 1,000+ The People came to see because of Advertising, PR, and Media coverage. The total KACHING FACT is a lot of bucks.

Apparently the BOD has no interest in finding out why NMLRA Members in neighboring stated to not come, as I never seen a letter or survey from THE NMLRA asking why.

All I can tell you is in 2000 THE WMS has close to 400 Registered Shooters, Mede a Very Large Profit, and now this last year it was like 225-230 ish.

Also as stated before many of the TRADERS that came in the early years, have not returned, and will not return. The Traders were promised NEXT YEAR too many times by the BOD's and ExComs of the NMLRA.

The promises were only promises, and nothing more. If any group or sport is to survive you have to add new bodies to the Membership. BTW the Friendship Shoot is also in the same MESS.

My buddy was a NMLRA Director & Member 20+ years, he remember when there was only a small or no gate fee to walk around Friendship during the Spring & Fall Shoots. He stated it was wall to wall people who were having fun, and spending money. Many came from across the Road from the Annual Big Flea Market. Back than NMLRA Membership was 25-27K.


IF you want to know why people do or do not do something, you got to ask each person,unless the Member of the NMLRA BOD, can reads minds. :redface:

 

[shortstring]

Good point as far as the SASS situation. At least if a crowd of onlookers would show up the traders would have a better weekend.

Right now there's a problem with traditional muzzloading that adds to the numbers drop. A good example happened a few years ago to me. I walked into the local hardware/ sporting goods store with a double English flint shotgun. Now if you go back 30 years ago (when Friendship was having its hayday) this shotgun would have gotten a bit of attention. The day I walked in pretty much nobody looked up from the inline they were studying. The one young man that inquired about the gun asked how it worked. When I explained his response was "what a pain in the ass". So who do we attract when, in comparison to the modern ML what we shoot is considered to be a pain to the modern shooter? As for the local SW US shooters who seem to be avoiding the WNS, who knows? If they showed up in 2000 as you say that would imply that something turned them off & is why they haven't returned. It could be the money involved, I will say that there better be something real sweet to win if I personally am going to throw down 40$ registration. Which brings up another thought, I go to matches & somewhat compete. What if you went to a match & knew full well that you couldn't compete with the hotdogs? Now how much $ are you going to pop for?

 

[akapennypincher]

Good point as far as the SASS situation. At least if a crowd of onlookers would show up the traders would have a better weekend.

SASS had Two Articles in the local Arizona Republic Newspaper, about there recent Event in at Ben Avery. I posted links in the Non ML Section of this Forum. Someone from SASS worked had to get Media coverage, and it worked. The Traders made money off the people who came to look see, SASS made money of the $5.00 parking FEE. Sure they picked up some new member also.

Right now there's a problem with traditional muzzleloading that adds to the numbers drop. A good example happened a few years ago to me. I walked into the local hardware/ sporting goods store with a double English flint shotgun. Now if you go back 30 years ago (when Friendship was having its hayday) this shotgun would have gotten a bit of attention. The day I walked in pretty much nobody looked up from the inline they were studying. The one young man that inquired about the gun asked how it worked. When I explained his response was "what a pain in the ass". So who do we attract when, in comparison to the modern ML what we shoot is considered to be a pain to the modern shooter? As for the local SW US shooters who seem to be avoiding the WNS, who knows? If they showed up in 2000 as you say that would imply that something turned them off & is why they haven't returned. It could be the money involved, I will say that there better be something real sweet to win if I personally am going to throw down 40$ registration. Which brings up another thought, I go to matches & somewhat compete. What if you went to a match & knew full well that you couldn't compete with the hotdogs? Now how much $ are you going to pop for?

Well in the Early Day of the Winter/Western National Shoot, a MAJOR Sponsor was RUGER & Co, who made inlines. People griped, and wined about them awful inlines.

Ruger her the grips, and wines, took their money else where, and now don't give the NMLRA even a Monthly Add in Muzzle GASP. They use to buy a FULL COLOR PAGE, and Support the NMLRA with a lot of MONEY!

The funny thing is I know 5 or 6 guys who started with INLINE, and Now Hunt the AZ ML Season with Flinters. These guy were customer at Ben Avery's Main Range, and became interested in going to Flint when they saw my Flinter. :hmm:

We can talk and talk about what needs to be done, but until the Members of the NMLRA BOD begin to listen, and have the intestinal fortitude to get involve in this, and other ML Forums, or acknowledge there is a Problem. Not changes will take place. Because these 30 Member of the BOD control the 13-15K NMLRA Members, and what the NMLRA does, and don't do.

The Last NMLRA President who had the GUTS to come to there ML Forums and talk openly, and honestly about the future of Muzzle loading was President Chuck Hearn. Sadly he became ill and only served about a year or so of his term, since Chuck you got people IMHO on the NMLRA BOD with no intestinal fortitude on the BOD.

Maybe some NMLRA Member should sent the links to the Two Stories in the AZ Repulbic about the Winter Range to the 30 NMLRA BOD Member, and ask why the Western National Shoot got no Press coverage in the AZ Repulbic???


I bet if you do you will get no replies, or a reply of NEXT YEAR....

BTW is you need a Link to contract the 30 Director, Most have e-mail here you go.