Newer CNC locks?

[TerryK]

What is the opinion of the newer CNC locks? Better than the best of the old school models?

 

[R.J.Bruce]

The fully CNC'd, 1740's, German flintlock from Chris Laubach at Firelocks, LLc. gets a huge thumbs up from Ron Scott who builds REALLY NICE Jaeger rifles. At $375.00 it's pricey, but Mr. Scott bought a dozen of them for his building projects.

The above info comes from some recent posts over at ALR.

 

[rich pierce]

Agree the Laubach lock is an amazing lock. I’m not sure it will actually perform better or faster than locks well assembled from castings but it feels and sounds entirely different. SNICK!!! SNAACK!!!!

 

[ekettenburg]

I haven't seen a lock new or old that performs as well as Chris Laubach's new lock. Period.

 

[EC121]

OK!! I'll be the devil's advocate. They might be the world's greatest lock ever, but I know of at least five that were substandard early on. I know one went back for a refund Don't know what happened to the others. I canceled my order after seeing the one. I'll just wait until I have one in hand before buying. The demo lock at the CLA show was great, but it might have been a prototype.

 

[Rudall]

SNICK!!! SNAACK!!!!

Jabberwock lock!

 

[denster]

Try Jim Kibler's cnc'd locks. I have the late Ketland on my smr and it is a jewel and only about $220 a real deal.

 

[Robby]

I wish these guys making CNC locks would flip their programming data over and start making lefties! C'mon fellows, how hard can it be!!!!
Robby

 

[Buck Conner]

.
The CNC locks we (GRRW.CA) have been receiving from our suppliers have been excellent. A few years ago some suppliers assembled lock kits (not bad but not as good as the CNC locks of today).


.

 

[SDSmlf]

I wish these guys making CNC locks would flip their programming data over and start making lefties! C'mon fellows, how hard can it be!!!!
Robby

Place an order for a couple hundred of them and it might happen.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Try Jim Kibler's cnc'd locks. I have the late Ketland on my smr and it is a jewel and only about $220 a real deal.

I believe cnc manufactured locks will be the standard offerings very soon. Anything that requires handwork is bound to escalate in price and the consistency of cnc will dominate.

 

[Robby]

Place an order for a couple hundred of them and it might happen.

Yeah, right, I'll get right on it.
Robby

 

[SDSmlf]

Yeah, right, I'll get right on it.
Robby

Just making the point that there is a lot of work and cost to ‘flipping’ a CNC program. You have to have a market to cover the costs. About 13% of the US population is left handed. Traditional muzzleloading is a small and likely shrinking market. Doubt you will see CNC left hand traditional locks anytime soon. Supply and demand.

 

[Robby]

I am totally aware of all that including what it takes to program and set up a cnc machining process. In todays world It is not as much as one might think, even hobbyists have access to CNC and are sometimes on the leading edge of innovation, so for a shop already well established in what is already a niche market, it is not a big deal.
Robby

 

[Johnny Tremain]

At half the price, Ill stick with Chamber's locks.

 

[Robby]

Me too Johnny, they are of high quality, but as time passes and costs are recouped, the price on those CNC locks will come down and by a lot I'd say.
Robby

 

[James C. Burnette]

Just making the point that there is a lot of work and cost to ‘flipping’ a CNC program. You have to have a market to cover the costs. About 13% of the US population is left handed. Traditional muzzleloading is a small and likely shrinking market. Doubt you will see CNC left hand traditional locks anytime soon. Supply and demand.

Owning a CNC machine, and using it for several years for production., it would not be that involved to "flip" the model. The software I use would take about 15-20 minutes to invert the model, rotate it 180 degrees around the x axis and rerun the toolpaths. Tooling profiles would not change but the material hold-downs would. Have done this many times making left and right hand projects.

Material nor labor costs would not increase, but the time involved in producing left hand locks would interfere with the production of the bread and butter right hand locks. The demand has to be there.

 

[rich pierce]

Here’s a problem. There are lots of lock choices. So someone could invest in CNC-ing a lock and capture a very small portion of the market.
Here are the locks that comprise 90% of the market:

A 1760-1790 Germanic rifle sized lock. You can now choose from 3 Siler-based models from Chambers, 2 L&R locks, a Davis lock, and a few others.

A bridled roundfaced English lock suitable for fowling pieces and rifles 1760-1780 or so. Choose from 2 from Chambers, Kibler, L&R, a Davis lock.

A later English “waterproof pan” flintlock suitable for 1800-1830 rifles. Choose the Chambers Late Ketland, Kibler of same name, L&R Durs Egg ( earlier but can be modified), Davis Twigg, etc.

I could go on with categories for earlier Germanic locks, French locks, Dutch locks, late round tailed English/American locks and so on.

There are almost no gaps in what most makers need and so no new ground or market to fill. Kibler is making them so he can control quality and availability and his costs for his kits. As he comes out with other kits, other locks may follow.
Current locks made from castings may get upgraded to CNC guts. That’s all I expect.
Chris Laubach’s lock is an exception. There was no fine early Germanic lock available in my opinion.

 

[Jay Templin]

Knowing *nothing* about CNC, I wonder if it would be feasible for someone to scan in an existing lock and offer an improved replacement like L&R does?
Jay

 

[R.J.Bruce]

We in the traditional m-l community often seem to have blinders on our eyes as regards to the financial reality of our sport.

The TOTALITY of all forms of muzzleloading sales, nationwide, from guns-to-powder-to-ammo-to-accessories, inlines-to-hand cannons, black powder-to-substitutes, from CVA-to-the guy that sells 50 hand-sourced, hand-split, hickory ramrods per year.....

Comprises less than 1/1000 of 1% of the TOTAL OUTDOORS REVENUE.

That's fishing, hunting, boating, bicycling, motorcycles, RV's, hiking, etc.

Compared to 1971, when I got started, we have a HUGE selection of locks to choose from. The market is just not there for a huge selection of left-handed flintlocks.

It's easy to tell Jim Kibler to "just reprogram his machines, and make a run of left-handed locks". By all accounts he is as busy as a one-handed paper hanger. If I had to guess, I would hazard that he and Kathyrn haven't had a vacation for some years. The money IS JUST NOT VIABLE for him to make left-handed locks, nor left-handed kits at this time.