New member seeking buying advice

[28mtnfisher]

Hi everyone. Last year I decided I would like to try my hand at muzzleloader hunting/shooting. I have saved my pennies and am ready to buy. Today I shot a muzzleloader for the first time - an in-line. It was a nice shooter, but other friends have been suggesting I look at a traditional caplock rifle. I have looked around, and the Lyman Great Plains Rifle in .54 looks most appealing to me. My only beef with it is that I really wanted to buy an american made rifle. Is there a current production american made rifle that I should be looking at? I've seen the TC Hawken, but it has a faster twist rate than I want, plus it only comes in .45 or .50. I would like to shoot ball. I even considered getting a TC Hawken and then swapping out the barrel with a Green Mountain barrel, but at that point the cost would be twice as much as the Lyman.

I'm here to learn, so all suggestions are welcome. And if I said something that makes it sound like I don't know what I'm talking about, it's probably because I don't! I am pretty eager to get moving on this, as hunting season starts in November, and I have a lot of shooting to do before then!

Thanks

 

[Lorne Johnson]

I have not seen anyone dis the Lyman GPR (they market both slow and fast twist barrels for it). It's a good-shooting reliable gun. On those I have seen, the inletting is better than the TC.

Cabelas sells a Invest Arms Hawken (Italian), and it appears to be well made and finished.

Track of the Wolf has a number of new and used Great plains Rifles (and kits). Some of the used guns American made, often hand made, so it's worth a look.

There is probably no perfect answer, and more than one good answer.

 

[rabjr]

Both T/C and Lyman are making just about the best production muzzleloaders at the moment. Many members here have and enjoy their Lyman Great Plains Rifle in .54 very much. Many personalizing them. I think many will tell you you won't regret going with a Lyman. So if that appeals to you, by all means go for it. :thumbsup:

 

[Semisane]

I know how you feel about buying American Mountainfisher, but face it - we live in a world economy.

I have a .54 Great Plains I bought new in Nov. `07 and it's a real shooter. If an American company made a decent slow twist .54 at anywhere near a competitive price I would certainly have gone that way. I paid $390 for a .54 that I wanted and passed on a .50 (which I didn't want) from Thompson Center that would have cost $200 more. The current price for a TC Hawken at Midsouth Shooters is $635 and its offered in 50 caliber only.

What a shame our American companies are missing the boat, though I guess the demand is just not there. If tomorrow morning TC announced production of a .58 Renegade for $500 I would place an order before noon.

 

[28mtnfisher]

so would I, semisane, so would I. Thanks for your help. I will look up that Track of the wolf. Yeah, I do understand that this is now a global economy, and US makers are missing the boat on this one, if you ask me. I guess I don't fully understand the market, but I would think most americans would choose the american rifle over the forein made one, all else being equal. But paying a $200 premium is a bit much, plus not being able to get it configured the way you want it.

How about the kits? Do most people buy the kits or the already assembled rifle? Honestly, I think the kit would NOT be a good idea for me since time is already an issue, but if this was January, I'd probably be all over one.

 

[Billnpatti]

There are American made guns out there but almost all of them are custom made guns. Some places to look for an American made rifle are Jim Chambers Flintlocks, Track of The Wolf, Sitting Fox, or you could just Google "muzzleloading rifles" and check out some of the places there. If you are any good at working with your hands and can spend the time necessary, they all sell American made parts from which you can build a gun. They sell them as kits. Some require more work than others. If you go that route, be sure that you get something that doesn't require more work than you have the skills, tools and knowlege to do. I have built several of the kits and know that it can be done by any person with average sklls, a reasonable supply of tools, a bit of patience and a willingness to follow directions very carefully. Take your time and work carefully and you will end up with a fine shooting and looking rifle of which you can be proud. But rush through it and you will end up with something that may be too ugly and disfunctional to work as a fence post. However, if you just want to buy a finished rifle ready to go and don't want to spend the family fortune, let me recommend the Lyman Great Planes Rifle. They are beautiful, well made rifles that are great shooters. I have a .50 cal flintlock GPR and it is one of my favorite rifles. I also own a couple of T/C Hawkens in .50 cal. One is a caplock and one is a flintlock. Both are well made and are shooters but I just think they look just a little too "Hollywood" for my tastes. Still, they do shoot well. :hatsoff:

My bottom line recommendation is to buy a Lyman GPR and spend the rest of your money on a good supply of powder, lead, a bullet mold, flints or caps depending on wich type of lock you get, a large can of Balistol (does everything WD-40 does and many things WD-40 doesn't) and the basic accessories. Take a thousand dollar bill with you and you will stll have enough left to buy a cup of Starbucks on the way home.

 

[Mulebrain]

One would be wise to heed the "other" friends advice :thumbsup:

I am all pro American, and as such we are limited in selection. TC Hawken is made in USA, but never really appealed to me as far as aesthetics. Of course no offense to anyone who adores them!

The Lyman is well made, and in a great price point! It ranks high in regards to appearance, and function. You can also do some great finish work on them, to make them all your own!

Remember that Lyman can be traded later, when you are ready to get into a custom gun or kit!

If it makes you feel better, many parts on many plains rifles were imported! :grin:

 

[bwhoffman]

thegunworks DOT com has a great used guninventory, lots of lyman and tc guns, and a few desirable cva mt rifles.

What everyone else is saying above holds true. lyman makes a great gun, the tc looks totally different and is a usa made item with a used price that isnt too far outof reach. the old cva mt rifle....they typically just shoot great.

my advice.....dont buy the gun you think you want, buy the gun that fits you by design.

i Like the heck out of my tc, but a lyman fits my body/head alignment better!

 

[jbtusa]

Go with the Lyman GPR for round ball or the Hunter for shooting conicals. The Lyman rifles are more period correct than the Thompson Centers. Both are excellent rifles. I've owned both. However, you will like the GPR better in the long run. They are real tack drivers and look better (period correct) than the T/C's. The .54 is best for big game and will weigh a little less.

 

[28mtnfisher]

Yeah, I'm sold on .54 caliber. I prefer the looks of the GPR to the TC Hawken. I have some woodworking skills, but they are currently being put to use pretty heavily to repair/remodel my house on my days off. I won't have time to build a kit rifle this year. I guess the GPR in .54 it is. I'll probably buy it next week, but I'm all ears to hear any other suggestions.

Thanks for the help so far. From what I've gathered on here, I'll be looking to try the .530 balls and a thinner patch, right? Where do you guys buy most of your supplies? What type of powder should I start with?

Is there a FAQ for beginners thread?

 

[MikeChapin]

When you get the rifle clean the barrel well to get the preservative out. The preservative Lyman uses will gunk the barrel up something terrible when you fire it. Most people here use break cleaner to cut it out of the barrel.

I would use real black powder for best performance but if you can't get it Pyrodex or another of the synthetics will work alright in a percussion rifle.

With a .530 ball I would start out with at least a .015 patch. You will also want to get a short starter, powder measure, powder horn or flask and a nipple wrench. I would also recommend getting a good range rod. I get most of my stuff at Track of the Wolf (TOW) but you may be able to find a lot of the stuff at your local Cabellas or sporting goods store.

Take it out and play with it and shoot it a lot. Don't worry too much about tight groups until you have about 100 rounds for barrel break in. Everything should tighten up for you to find the load the rifle likes for the tightest groups.

 

[cowpoke1955]

I agree with the rest. The .54 Lyman GPR has my vote. If you check the T/C web site they offer only one model in a Hawkens, .50 cal. percussion and that's it! I bought my .54 GPR percussion al,ost 30 years ago. It's good looking, rugged and very accurate. I liked it so much my wife bought me a .54 GPR flint kit a few years back. The kits are easy to assemble and go together rather quickly. DNR Sports has the best prices on the net: http://www.dnrsports.com/acatalog/D___R_Catalog_Lyman_Muzzleloaders_649.html . My favorite load in both rifles is 80 grains of FFg Goex, .530 balls and pillow ticking patches lubed with Ballistol. You can use Pyrodex RS, if you don't have any black powder. The pillow ticking I buy a couple of yards worth at Wal-Mart. The blue and white ticking mics at .018" and works great. You won't regret going with the GPR. I also have a .54 T/C Hawkens and it just feels chunky compared to my GPRs. By the way, welcome to the forum :hatsoff:

 

[silverfox]

I go along with cowpoke. DNR looks like good prices. Also the $70 difference in finished or kit would make me go kit. If you have a few small hand tools and know how to finish wood. The Lyman kits like most commercial kits can be put together almost on the kitchen table in a couple of days or nights some even faster. Besides you will learn how the gun works a big plus.
Either way it will be fun and welcome to the sport. If you go .54 the RB molds are hard to find right now so if you see one latch on to it. Then you will have to learn to cast your bullets but that is another enjoyable part of the game.
Fox :thumbsup:

 

[jbtusa]

Go with Track of the Wolf for accessories for your GPR. My cap .54 GPR likes a .530 ball, 80 gr Goex FF, .18" patch for target shooting. I go up to 100 gr. FF for hunting with no noticeable change in point of impact. That hunting load hurts to shoot so I usually stay with the target loads. A new GPR barrel takes about 100 shots to start settling in to a fine tack driver. You will be impressed with the GPR, guaranteed!

 

[28mtnfisher]

Thank you for all of the advice, and thanks for the suggestions on retail sites. The lowest price I had found was at Midsouth, but DNR has them beat.

What do you guys usually carry with you to measure your charge? Do you use the adjustable powder measure? I'm getting my list together and I'll probably be ready to buy next week. I'm getting pretty excited. So far I have:

.54 Perc GPR
.530 Hornady LRB
powder (What's the best way to get this?)
powder horn
funnel
powder measure
no. 11 caps (any suggestions here?)
patches (.015 and .018)
nipples
ball puller
bore brush
starter
nipple wrench?
cleaning supplies?
lube?
capper?
lube?

What am I missing?

 

[tiger955]

I agree with the others on the GPR being the best bang for the buck these days. Personaly I like shooting my TC's but as said before price is high and caliber is limited to 50 these days. I have a flinter with a 34" GM 1-70 round ball barrel that is my favorite.
I have an old CVA Mountain Rifle 54 (American made) that I use for shoots where period correctness is important, it is a great shooter also. I don't trust the Spanish made barrels on the newer CVA's though.
Several members in our club shoot GPR's, and they shoot well (better than the guys behind them) and I have never heard of any problems with them. They love them. If I was buying new, I would go with one of them.
There are a lot of nice used guns out there also but you have to be careful checking them out. Many have not been cleaned/stored properly and have problems in the bore. When I bought my flinter the bore looked good with a light but I later found a rust ring in the breach end. Apparently someone left it loaded too long. I definity would be leery of a used gun unless I could run a wet patch down the barrel to check for loose or rough spots. But if the bore is good and the triggers and lock work properly, there are some bargins to be had.

 

[Le Grand]

"What type of powder should I start with?"

I'll suggest that you start with FFg, real black powder. That's harder to find than the substitutes but it is better for shooting. Other shooters on this list will recommend FFFg, a finer grade, quicker burning. I won't argue with that but for the bores over .50 caliber I prefer using the FFg powder. And, for a beginners thread, you're in the right place.

 

[doulos]

28mtnfisher
I wish there were more American made guns also.
If you are going to go ahead and spend about 500 for a Lyman spend a little more and but the Pedersoli Rocky mountain Hawken. I saw one at Cabela's in Pa for 649 bucks. thats with a maple stock. They are very nice for that price. They have a lot of nice touches too. Like color cased lock, tang and butt plate. Very smooth finished browning on barrel. And as accurate as you can hold. The usual price on these is over 900.
Either way you will be happy with either.

 

[28mtnfisher]

OK OK, now to mess things up. What about the deerstalker? I kind of like the looks better, plus its cheaper. I see it has the faster twist. Can you get a slower twist barrel for it? I'm thinking I might put a receiver sight on whichever model I get, and I saw that Lyman makes receiver sights for both models. How well will the 1 turn in 48" shoot round balls?

 

[cowpoke1955]

The 1 in 48" twist will shoot round balls OK, but not as good as the 1 in 60" twist of the GPR's! On your list I didn't see a shooting (possible) bag or a range rod. Been using this range rod for almost 30 years : http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_99_320&products_id=1302 . It has a ball puller built in. Don't forget the short starter. Cleaning supplies consist of two empty coffee cans. One for warm soapy water and the other for warm clean water. Very simple :thumbsup: