New barrel or re-rifle old one?

[PaulN/KS]

In the continuing saga of the wife's rifle...Is it possible to get a replacement barrel for a Traditions St Louis Hawken? Any drop in ones out there ?
Next question,would it be possible to send the barrel out and have it re-rifled ? Perhaps by the often mentioned and highly praised Ed Rayle?
Thanks gents,
Paul

 

[J.D.]

For what reason? Sometimes barrels can be rejuvenated by the owner, depending on the problem.

I assume that this barrel is no longer accurate.

Is/was one of the yellow miracle lubes used as patch lube and preservative?

If that is the case, scrubb the daylights out of it with a bronze brush and a strong solvent.

I only mention this because it's a common problem.
I have seen too many guns thought to be shot out, only to find that the yellow miracle lubes have built up enough layers of wax to destroy accuracy.

 

[faw3]

Might help if ya tell whats wrong with the one you have, for the price of those Id try fixen the one you have first, then you can rebarrel, rerifle, even a liner (yes they do work!) Fred :hatsoff:

 

[roundball]

I have seen too many guns thought to be shot out, only to find that the yellow miracle lubes have built up enough layers of wax to destroy accuracy.

Same here...if it's not all removed after every shooting session it'll build up...best thing I found to getting a used "inaccurate" barrel back to factory condition is:

Shooters Choice Black Powder Cleaning Gel

It's very strong and will dissolve the stuff easily without wearing out your shoulder scrubbing the bore...if left on a bronze bore brush overnight the bristles will be dissolved by the next morning...I know this because I read the directions the next morning!
:grin:

 

[MikeChapin]

It would be easier if you gave the symptoms of the problems. As the others have said you may just need to clean the residual lube out of the barrel to cure your problem.

If that doesn't work, a cheaper thing to try would be to recrown the barrel. I have brought back a couple of rifles just doing this. Ramrod and cleaning rod wear can cause enough wear over the years to throw accuracy off without causing enough wear to see with the naked eye.

 

[PaulN/KS]

Ok,
The specs are that it is a Traditions 28" barrel,1/66 twist ,.50 caliber.The rifling is pretty shallow.
Symptoms:Inconsistent accuracy both near and far.Fouls either quickly or can go an entire woodswalk without wiping.Tends to foul worst in the first 1/3 of the barrel.(muzzle end)
We have used both pyrodex and Goex and she has had troubles with both.Yes,she uses the "yellow lube".


PS-anyone who wishes to suggest it is the shooter should do so at their own risk... :grin:

 

[paulvallandigham]

What is the bore diameter( Land to land) and what is the groove diameter? Saying the rifling is fairly shallow tells us next to nothing.

I would recommend doing to things differently than you now do with this gun.

1. Clean between each shot. use a little spit on a cleaning patch first, running the cleaning patch down the barrel in 6 inch stages, and then reversing and pulling it back up. That loosens the crud, seats the patch in the patch jag, and really cleans the grooves much better, or more thoroughly. The damp part of the patch in front of the jag will dissolve and then soak up the cruk on the breechface. If you gun as a smaller powder chamber, you will need to clean it with a separate patch, and jag. No getting around that. You can use a small bore bursh sized to fit the powder chamber with a cloth cleaning patch in front of it. The wires of the brush will grab the patch and let you pull both back out. Just make sure you turn the brush in the direction of the turn of the rifling. Most are right hand twist, so that turning the brush to the right also tightens the brush on the end of your ramrod. To break the grip of the brush, simply turn the entire rod to the right( clockwise) to lay the bristles over, and that will allow you to pull the brush back out the barrel, holding the cleaning patch in place.

When you are done with the wet patch(s), use a dry patch or two to dry the entire barrel and pull the rest of the crud out the barrel. A second dry patch may be needed in very damp conditions.

In the wintertime, when temperatures are below freezing, use alcohol, rather than spit to dampen your cleaning patch. The alcohol will evaporate quickly.

2. Lube a cleaning patch with wonderlube, or your other lube compounds, and lube the barrel after seating your ball. This will leave lube to soften powder residue as the ball passes, and the smoke and crud attach to the sides of the barrel. That makes cleaning much easier, but also helps keep the crud from locking onto the grooves in the first place. You will get a few FPS more velocity with a lubed barrel, and the Standard Deviation in Velocity will drop. Those are three good reasons to use this extra step.

Best of wishes.

 

[J.D.]

Throw the yellow junk away. That may be a big part of the problem. Some guns don't like it. Try spit patches, cheap and it usually works better than commercially made lubes.

If the wife won't use spit, try Lehigh Valley, or one of Stmpies "moose" lubes. Or windshield wiper fluid, or any number of home made soap and water/alcohol concoctions.

IMHO, many accuracy problems stem from a poor patch lube, among others, but the patch lube is often the easiest to find and most often overlooked solution.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I agree with J.D. about lubes being a solution that is often overlooked. Anytime I see a problem with crud building in a barrel, anywhere, I look to changing or adding lube. Lubing the barrel after seating a PRB, with the patching also lubed, takes most of the work out of the little bit of lube that is on the patch. That lube then just keeps the cloth patch from burning, and helps seal the bore by adding to the thickness of the patch material that is jammed against the lands and grooves. It is not also being asked to lube the bore all the way to the muzzle to keep all the fouling that follows the ball soft. I like a soft lube- the consistency of crisco shortening- for lubing the barrel, but I have also had success with more liquid lubes. I just don't like to use the liquid ones when hunting, as I want them to stay put, and not drip out the muzzle, or contaminate my powder.

Dutch Schoultz's dry lube process is very good, using a combination of ballistoil and water on patching, and then letting the patches dry in the sun to produce a patching that is coated evenly with the oil.

 

[W T]

Take a look at what Dutch has to say about inaccurate/inconsistent barrels on his site:
[url] http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/index.html[/url]

I just got his 'system' in and looking forward to working with it. Just my $.02...

 

[faw3]

Dutch is the man that knows and a hell of a shot till his eyes got old. Id start out with trying some bench work at 25 yds to see if the barrel is off or its your load,shooter,sights, ect. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOu can pick up new barrels for pretty reasonable prices if you look in the right places. That will usually be cheaper than reboring the existing barrel. I thought you should have an answer to your original question, while we talk about the merits of lubes. :hatsoff: :rotf:

 

[PaulN/KS]

Thanks for the input and advice on lubes Gents.The wife is reading these posts and we shall try the suggestions.
And thanks also for answering my original question PaulV... :thumbsup:

 

[gmww]

And if all the good advice fails, you might look at another option. If you like the barrel you have, you could have a liner put in. Not sure what that will cost nowadays but it is an option.

 

[PaulN/KS]

She likes the stock cause it fits her and I fancied it up a bit with some tasteful tacking...
The barrel she is not so fond of,especially after this last match...

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOu are welcome. The good reason for re-boring an older barrel is to restore or save a truly old barrel that was neglected long before it came into your posession. My brother had an 1800 vintage barrel rebored and re rifled to make it shootable again, after it had been neglected for more than 50 years. The barrel shows it was originally on a flintlock rifle, and then was cut down, and used to barrel a half stock percussion gun made in the 1870s. Although there are no markings on the barrel that give a clue to its original maker, my brother though it would be nice to have a shooter with an original barrel that age. He just used the bun to shoot the Sgt. York Memorial Chunk Gun Match in Pall Mall, Tenn. two weeks ago. He one the 4 th or 5th match with the closest shot, and took home a cured ham and a plaque. So, he's a very happy camper. And he is very proud to have shot that well with that old barrel.

 

[J.D.]

The barrel she is not so fond of,especially after this last match...

What was changed? Did she change patch thickness, the way she measured the powder charge, or maybe the thickness of cleaning patches used for swabbing between shots? How about using a new can of powder? Different lots shoot differently.

Any change can make a good barrel go wild.

Another solution, after cleaning the bore very well is lapping. If you can't remove the breech plug, and on a Traditions it will probably be hard to remove, fire lapping is an option.

J.D.

 

[PaulN/KS]

JD,
Nothing really much has changed as this gun has never been a very good shooting rifle.The weather was colder that day which may have been a factor since she uses the yellow lube.We hope to do some shooting and see if we can get it to do[url] better.Rain[/url],snow,cold,wet and windy here for the next week so it may be awhile...

 

[Doc Arroyo]

Paul-

What diameter roundball are you useing? I have typically had good luck with a .490 ball in a couple of different rifles, but they didn't shoot worth a $%^& out of a friend's. He ended up with .495 and a heavy patch to get consistancy out of his rifle-gun!

Maybe another part of the puzzle? :v

 

[paulvallandigham]

I agree, Doc. I am beginning to think that either his ball diameter is not the same as he had been using, or the patch thickness has changed. A caliper, or micrometer would do wonders to tell what the story is here. With calipers, the bore diameter( land to land) and groove diameter of the barrel should also be measured. The groove depth tells you much about how thick a patch you will need to use. The land to land, or bore diameter tells you what size ball to shoot.