New 20 gauge....turkey load needed

[don hepler]

I recently picked up an unfired 20 gauge barrel with jug choke, that fits my Renegade. I have never shot a smoothbore but I do shoot Flintlock and Cap lock rifles. I want to get started, with some Turkey loads. I have some over powder cards and fiber wads, that I ordered from Midway. What would a good turkey load be.

 

[No Deer]

In my 20 ga. cylinder bore trade gun I use 75 gr 3f powder, and 1 to 1 1/4 oz #5 shot. Works very well out to about 25 yards.

 

[wattlebuster]

The thick fiber wads will blow your pattern. Try using a few overshot cards together. They are light an will fly off to the side BEFORE they have a chance to blow the pattern

 

[gmannx217]

Exactly. The thick fibre wads will ruin your pattern.

 

[Wes/Tex]

I must be the exception to the rule...never have had trouble with wads blowing a pattern. NO idea what my secret is, if secret it may really be. Use olive oil to lube them and have never experienced an "donut" like pattern on any I've tested on paper. In the interim, I've mostly switched to tow for no other reason than it's cool to do it the old way! :wink:

 

[Curt]

It might be the condition of the barrel inside.L.C. Rice told me for shootin shot you want the barrel a little rough.if shootin rbs you want it smooth(IIRC).Barrels are like people ,there all a little different but have same characteristics. Curt

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Folks, Wads don't blow through patterns. High school physics will tell you that the mass of the shot + low air friction vs. the mass and air friction of the wad will not allow the wad to pass through the shot column in flight.

For more than a century they have used thick fiber wads in shotshells without problems...they don't all use shotcups folks.

Often a shot column rotates along the axis of the barrel tube as the column reaches the muzzle. When this "torque" along the axis is amplified, the pattern is "blown" into what some call a "donut" shape. This is why rifled barrels make poor shotguns, and it's why modern screw in turkey chokes sometimes have straight grooves... to halt any torque of the shot column that might have begun in the barrel.

This torque can be amplified by increasing the muzzle velocity..in other words it's there but isn't readily observable until the muzzle velocity lowers the time it takes for the hole in the middle of the pattern to appear, so this is why some loads that work well stop working and "donut" the pattern when more powder is added.

The thick wads in some cases are imparting more twist than their thinner cousins...which is why for some of you there has been observed blown patterns when using the thicker wads.

LD

 

[don hepler]

I appreciate all the replies and information. I was hoping to test some loads today, but rain has set in. One concern that I have is keeping the over shot card down against the shot. It looks like the weight of the shot would allow it to move forward.

 

[Lorne Johnson]

Get overshot cards that fit tight. You can also use 2 cards to increase the friction.

Circle fly makes wads in every gauge, which allows you make almost any necessary adjustments. Available TOW, Dixie, etc.

 

[matt denison]

"
The thick wads in some cases are imparting more twist than their thinner cousins...which is why for some of you there has been observed blown patterns when using the thicker wads."

So, well, um,,, so thick fiber wads can blow your pattern. ?? I personally have eliminated fiber wads from my shot shooting because I get better patterns without them. I get doughnuts with them. Hmm. I don't mean to pick an arguement, only saying what my experience has been.

 

[azmntman]

I once fired load of shot from a KY .45 just to see and the pattern was a perfect doughnut. Assume rifling did it. Only tried once. I have no clue what could give a fiber wad enough spin to do it? I still rather a newbie to shot though....will next try paper cups and erics cloth strip trick. I do need a better (tighter) pattern than I saw my first time out with my new to me 20 ga SS.

 

[roundball]

I recently picked up an unfired 20 gauge barrel with jug choke, that fits my Renegade. I have never shot a smoothbore but I do shoot Flintlock and Cap lock rifles. I want to get started, with some Turkey loads. I have some over powder cards and fiber wads, that I ordered from Midway. What would a good turkey load be.

Just for some balance on the subject of OP wads I'd like to mention that I've had both experiences with full size vs. small size OP wad configurations.
In 20ga smoothbores I've had...32" and 38" barrels, some cylinder bore, some Jug Choked Improved Cylinder, some Jug Choked Full...I usually got slightly tighter patterns using only 1 or 2 of the 1/8" prelubed Oxyoke felt 'wonderwads' vs. a full size 1/2" fiber wad.

BUT...interestingly, in my 42" 28ga Cyl Bore barrel, I get significantly better patterns with the full size 1/2" fiber wads.

Only making the point that there can be so many variables involved, particularly in smoothbores, that there are very few cast in stone absolutes that always apply. A 10 grain difference in powder charge might do better with one wad configuration or another...same thing with different size shot charges.

At least based on my experiences, the best approach is to at least try a couple different wad configurations in your particular smoothbore with the size powder and shot charge you settle on...and then if you change one of those variables later on, the smart money says run patten tests again to verify best results.
Good luck

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

I agree with RB, in addition, the only time I have had the patterns blown in my smoothbores is when I used commercially lube fiber wads or I over lubed my on wads. In those cases the fiber wad was so heavy with lube that it blew right through the shot column.

 

[don hepler]

What do you use to measure the shot? So far I've heard 75 grains of powder and 1 to 1 1/4oz. #5 shot. Would this be max. load or medium load? All these ounces, drams, and so on, has got my mind in a mess. I have never been a shotgun person, even with modern guns.

 

[hoochiepapa]

What I've been told-same amount of shot as powder. Use your powder measure to measure shot.

 

[Rifleman1776]

What do you use to measure the shot? So far I've heard 75 grains of powder and 1 to 1 1/4oz. #5 shot. Would this be max. load or medium load? All these ounces, drams, and so on, has got my mind in a mess. I have never been a shotgun person, even with modern guns.

There are all kinds of measuring devices available for shot. Or, you can make your own out of almost anything. I have used horn tips, drilled out antler and copper tubing. A wire handle can be soldered onto the copper.
BTW, I use 1 1/4" oz. of #6 shot w/70 gr. 3Fg real bp. Patterns good, have never killed a turkey with it. Or anything.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

I use 65 grains of 2F, 1 1/4 oz of #6 shot, hard card, cushion wad, thin top wad. Shoot 20 yards or less.

Some report better patterns with; thin or no cushion wad, lighter powder charges, different power granulations.

When you pattern, your first shot from a clean barrel my be different that subsequent shots.

 

[bud in pa]

I couldn't get decent patterns with my 20ga. Read about an old time black powder gunsmith from North Dakota on another forum. Unfortunately my mind gets in the way of remembering his name. Anyhow he suggested using 1f powder. I bought some "cannon" powder as someone referred to it. 70 grs. of 1f, split the 1/2 wad in half, 70 grs. of No. 6 shot, overshot card. between 11 and 15 pellets in the head and neck at 25 yds.. It also penetrates a can, as others suggest it must to be leathel on a turkey. Now all I need to do is shoot a turkey. :grin:

 

[don hepler]

Hey, all this information is getting me fired up for opening day. Looks like the weather will be better next week. I'll be working on some of these suggestions between now and then.

I appreciate the help, and I feel more comfortable, going forward. I'm going to fix me a target frame, and save some tin cans.

Thanks again.

 

[Rifleman1776]

suggested using 1f powder

If it works, good.
But, be careful what you wish for.
When I first got my JB fowler I tried it out for the first time with Swiss 1 1/2 Fg. Could not hardly get ignition. Bad news.
Switched to Goex and Swiss in 2Fg and 3Fg, those both work fine.