Need Possibles Bag Ideas ..

[MSW]

shooting bag: full of stuff with which you shoot (ball, shot, and the like)

possibles bag: full of stuff you might possibly need (spare flints, nipple wrench, cleaning jags, screwdrivers - aka "turnscrews" and so on)

haversack: full of stuff on which you might snack (cheese, jerky, freeze dried politicians, dehydrated liberals and the like)

purse: full of stuff considered essential by SWMBO and inexplicable by most of us who pee standing up ... (lipstick, address book, spare cell phone, extra set of car keys, mace, baton (collapsible), spare identity cards, small scissors, a set of lock picks, some spare nail polish, a small packet of Kleenex, "compact" mirror, lip balm, ball point pen, pencil, small notebook, an eyeglass repair kit with wee tiny screwdriver and teeny bitty screws, an instruction manual to DBaseIII+, and the registration to a 1961 Rambler Nash)

simple enough...

by the way, carry whatever you want and call it whatever you want: it's your bag, paid for with your money, and hanging off your shoulder. its name and contents are, therefore, none of my business. get in touch with your inner curmudgeon!

:grin: :hatsoff:

 

[Nessmuck56]

Right on Brother.....you would have thought I asked..bevel up or bevel down on your Flintah for crying out loud !! I want a leather bag that will hold balls/shot, spare flints,screwdriver,jag,few cleaning patches, wads,patches...things you could possibly need while shooting...if a few things go wrong. The Cabin Fever ain't that bad this Wintah ..is it ?..

 

[George]

FWIW, in all the research I've done I've never found the term 'shooting bag' or 'shooting pouch' in the writings of the 18th century. They invariably use the term 'shot bag' or 'shot pouch', period.

In my reading, the term 'possibles bag' seems to have never been used until 19th century and that in the west. And it was for a bag to carry other stuff in, not shooting supplies.

It doesn't matter to most people, but to me it seems reasonable that those interested in reenacting include the language of the old days in our efforts to recreate those times. They didn't carry shooting bags, they carried shot bags, why is it not important to call it by its historic name? Do you call your fusee a shotgun? Why not, it is.

Over the years I've seen the language of our hobby drift quickly in the direction of modern jargon. I believe that degrades the quality of the recreation we are attempting, and is not a good thing. We've come to the point where we are arguing which is correct for the container we carry our shooting supplies in, shooting bag or possibles bag, when, truth be told, neither is.

If a person isn't interested in reenacting, then none of this matters, carry whatever you choose in your purse and forget it. :haha:

Spence

 

[Artificer]

Do you care if it is authentic or not? If so, what time period, region, etc.? Will you use it for reenacting?

Gus

No reenacting...like I mentioned,I shoot a Tulle ,so maybe something around that time..New England style maybe not...will see what floats my boat. Price...not on a budget. Thanks !!

OK, that is a good beginning.

Now, what do you intend to carry in the Shooting Pouch? This is important for the size of the pouch as well as how big your hand/s are, to comfortably and efficiently reach in and get things out. One also has to think about internal or external sewn on pockets or internal divider flaps that would separate the interior space into two sections. If one can't get one's hand in the pocket or get the item out of the pocket easily, that could be a problem. Some folks prefer an internal dividing flap to keep the things they need less in the back part of the pouch and keep the things like balls and/or shot, powder measure, patches or cards and wads, short starter, grease tin (if they want or need one) in the front of the pouch where it is easier to get at them. Some folks with a gun like yours actually use two different shooting pouches, one if they are shooting ball and another if they are shooting shot.

So what I recommend is you lay out the "stuff" you want to carry in the pouch because that (and the size of your hand) will help you decide the size of the pouch you need and want. For example, you might/would need a little larger shooting pouch than bare minimum size if you carried a shot bag and or small powder horn in your pouch. Some folks carry their shot in an external shot bag that is often or usually called a "shot snake," so they don't need to make room for it in their pouch. I did that with my smoothbore, as I shot it a lot more with ball than I ever did with shot. Here is just one example to let you see what I mean: http://leatherfromthepast.blogspot.com/2015/02/shot-snake.html

A VERY minimalistic original period pouch would be a belt pouch that is often referred to as a "Lyman" Pouch. With a belt pouch, people carried everything else they needed in pockets in their clothing. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/273309/

The next "step up" in size is what is often known as a "Day Pouch" or sometimes a minimalistic pouch. The "Day Pouch" kept just those items needed to shoot the gun during a day of hunting/shooting. There are not many original 18th century shooting pouches left and it seems most of the ones that survived are in this category. (My personal speculation is these survived because they were not used on a day to day basis and spent much of their life inside the cabin or house, but I may be mistaken.)

If you carry your powder measure and vent pick on straps or cords attached to the outside of the shooting pouch, you don't need as much room inside the pouch. If you carry a patch knife outside the pouch, you don't need room for it in the pouch either.

Personally, I like my shooting pouches a bit larger than a day pouch, but that is from years of shooting on the Primitive Range and the fact I have rather large hands. In many of the matches I shot, once you crossed a line, you could not go back and get something you forgot. I like this idea for even a hunting pouch. Also, I kept a large Ball Starter (for .75 caliber) in my pouch and they usually did not use them in the 18th century, so they did not need as large of a pouch. I also kept an adjustable powder measure in my pouch because at the time, I could only afford to make one shooting pouch to use with either my Musket or Flint Rifle. So I switched Ball Starters and components when I went from one gun to the other.

Some folks do not consider a "Turnscrew" or Screwdriver essential for a shooting pouch, but I most definitely will have one in my shooting pouch without fail. I have filed the Top Jaw Screw on my guns so one size Turnscrew will fit it and my side plate screws for my Lock. I have not OFTEN had occasion to need to tighten or replace a flint in my Top Jaw, but it has happened. I don't want to have to go back to the car or back home for a screwdriver when that happens. I like at least an internal flap divider in my pouch to keep the Turnscrew/Screwdriver, flint pouch, flint leathers, Ball Puller and Worm in the back where I don't often need to get at them. Now, an easy answer to carry a somewhat flat Turnscrew/Screwdriver or Period Combination Tool is to sew a small pouch on the front of the pouch, where the outer flap covers it.

I don't carry a "Bag Mold", Period fishing gear, flint and steel kit, etc., etc., so I don't need as large of a shooting pouch as some folks use. I do sometimes carry a small pair of period style pliers in my pouch but there is room for them behind the rear flap. Some folks carry a small "emergency" pill box there, if they need to do so.

I hope I didn't confuse you, but what you will carry in your pouch and the size of your hands has a lot to do with how large of a shooting pouch you need.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Spence,

For the most part, I very much agree with you and especially for those who do 18th century. I began muzzle loading with 19th century, so I had to make a conscious effort to stop calling my "bag" a "possibles pouch." I at least have that straightened out now. :wink: :haha:

Then only in more recent years, I found out that a "Cartridge Box" ONLY applies to what we usually call a "Belly Box." For MANY years I thought it also meant the "over the shoulder" military cartridge box. Instead, they called the latter a "Cartridge Pouch" or "Shot Pouch" to distinguish it from the Cartridge Box/Belly Box. The military also used the term "Shot Pouch" for the bags that did not carry pre-made cartridges and those were normally for Light Infantry or Riflemen.

Gus

 

[coloradoclyde]

Spence, Your right....
Grammar has changed a lot over the last 300 years. "Shooting bag" is our modern adaptation of the more traditional "shot bag", and "possibles bag" is little more than "slang".

We probably should use the old archaic form.....But I draw the line at bringing back the long S ........ :haha:

 

[Cowboy]

colorado clyde gives some sage advice, as usual.

I don’t have the vast experience of most on this forum, but I have spent some time trying to decide whether the possibles bag-shooting bag-haversack nomenclature was just semantics or if there were real differences.



Some people are adamant about the difference:
“The shooting bag is not a possibles bag. It should only contain those items necessary to operate the gun. The goal is to have your accouterments organized and handy enough that you won’t be fumbling around on the shooting line. When you have it all organized just right you should be able to load your gun with your eyes closed or in the dark of night if necessary.”
“

Most important: have fun!
Ron

Ron, As always you gave an excellent response! I love your reply. Very imformative and understandable! :thumbsup: Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[pab1]

Some people are adamant about the difference:
“The shooting bag is not a possibles bag. It should only contain those items necessary to operate the gun. The goal is to have your accouterments organized and handy enough that you won’t be fumbling around on the shooting line. When you have it all organized just right you should be able to load your gun with your eyes closed or in the dark of night if necessary.”
“Other items that may be needed for a day hunt such as; lunch, a container of water, compass, fire starting materials, etc. are carried in a separate possible bag or haversack.”

That's how I look at it! :thumbsup:

When you're trying to load a second shot you don't want to look like a little old lady, holding up the line at the grocery store while digging around in a packed purse trying to find a penny. :wink:

 

[Artificer]

I also have to give Spence and others credit for the fact they carry two small bags, one each to carry flints and flint leathers and another to carry Worms and Jags. You only need ONE TIME to reach into your shot pouch for a Worm and get impaled on a sharpened point, to figure out it should be covered in some way. :redface: :haha:

The first traditional "flint wallet" I made to hold flints and leathers looked something like this: http://smilingfoxforgellc.com/details.asp?id=37

Or this: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-r2v8UHf_K_c/UZytUYN-r1I/AAAAAAABFnw/OjtoAYVFWZ0/s1600/DSCN5802.JPG


However, the flint leathers worked or fell out, so I made ones with larger pockets to hold the flints and leathers together. It is probably easier to carry them in a small pouch.

If you are into leather working, here are some neat ideas for "Combination" Tool and Flint Wallets:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-45xuleCN...w/oxIuEzeQiMY/s640/Shea+flint+wallet+open.jpg

and
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_bANbKKhBnc/U9mO6kQxONI/AAAAAAABWVo/KrT3H7F-FCI/s1600/IMG_3850-1.JPG

In any case, I put these things behind a inside divider flap in my shot pouch/es.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Ok guys I am new to this. So, I tried researching Possible Bag and Shooting Bag on the net, but was unable to find anything. Can someone please tell me the difference without hijacking this thread?

Thanks in advance,
Rick

Try this for more images: http://search.aol.com/aol/image?q=18th+century,+shooting+pouch&s_chn=prt_main5&v_t=comsearch


Gus

 

[Claude Mathis]

It doesn't matter to most people, but to me it seems reasonable that those interested in reenacting include the language of the old days in our efforts to recreate those times. They didn't carry shooting bags, they carried shot bags, why is it not important to call it by its historic name? Do you call your fusee a shotgun? Why not, it is.

I agree, but I was thinking more along the lines of the fact that people are using modern jargon and it helps to try and define your question based on what most here thinks when we hear a term. My "bag" illustrations above demonstrate my point.

Once a person gets into the finer points, they can focus on historically accurate terminology, but when they're starting out, they at least need to get in the ballpark.

I think it's okay for someone to use the term "hammer" when first referring to a flintlock. You can educate them on the term "cock" once the discussion goes further.

 

[necchi]

Well it ain't rocket science.
Keep in mind most folks go for too big and carry too much stuff, that complicates trying to find individual items when you need them.
7x7 with a narrow gusset and an inside pocket is very handy.
You have two guns and the gear for each,, get two bags, that way you can just grab the bag for the gun and go.
October Country is well known for quality bags you can get from basic to fancy (not too big though)
The Freetrapper or the Old Style on this page are good choices, but there's three pages to look at; http://www.octobercountry.com/categories/Possible-Bags/?sort=featured&page=2

Go down to the Craftsmen Bench section here and look at the back pages picking topics about bags to see several that folks here have made.
(you can reset the times frames on the bottom of the page and go back years) They usually have plenty of detailed photo's to show different aspects they added.
Enjoy the journey, :wink:

p.s. All of October Country's bags are labeled "possible" so you may not be able to use any of them, :rotf:

 

[George]

Once a person gets into the finer points, they can focus on historically accurate terminology, but when they're starting out, they at least need to get in the ballpark.

That seems a good plan, but I've seen it work just the opposite here on this list. A newbie uses the term possibles bag for a shot bag and no one points out the difference, so he assumes that's correct and keeps on using it. Others learn from him that is correct and it spreads. I first saw the term used in that way not more than 3-4 years ago, after reading various boards for 30+ years. Now it's no surprise to see it done. That's what I mean by drifting. It's not historically accurate, but it becomes acceptable from common usage, and the next thing you know we are having a flame war, one side defending the practice and swearing on bibles it is historically correct. For reenactors, better to nip it in the bud, it's very difficult to unlearn bad stuff. IMHO

Spence

 

[Nessmuck56]

Ok ....are we all done with the bag names...lets get back on point and post some pics of your leather goods that hold shooting supplies in the field....would just like to see working set ups. Thanks again

 

[necchi]

Kinda forward asking folks to do what they've already done, ya just gotta look.
Some that have been done recently; http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/299011/ http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/287890/ http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/298481/ http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/298337/ http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/298182/ http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/298361/

Don't forget the Classifieds; http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/pp-classifieds/index.php

A couple I've done,

 

[Nessmuck56]

Beaver tail....now that's what Iam liking...I have a beaver tail wallet....and I am a fur trapper ..so that fits the bill...where did yah get that ????

 

[Mort Scott]

man it's been a long winter. show some bags i don't care if it's made of paper.

 

[necchi]

It's a tanned tail, I got it from a local Rendezvous trader. We have a local taxidermy tanner that does all kinds of hides, I'm pretty sure he got it there It's actually stitched on there too.
I've got it set up as a belt bag w/some sections of heavy vegtan inside the welting to hold it from collapsing,gives me more room for big clumsy hands an fingers. It's more for Rendezvous range shooting off the belt but I can loose the straps in back and attach a shoulder strap if I want. I was going to cut the top flap to match and accent the tail a bit, but I got used to it the way it is.

 

[pab1]

I bought a bag from Track of the Wolf made by The Leatherman. It was reasonably priced and very good quality.

 

[Jim C]

Here's one I just bought made by "October Country". Supposedly HC/PC for the mountain man period, it is a generous 9x11 with a large outside pocket underneath the flap, an inside pocket sewn to the back wall, an outside loop on one side, a 2 inch wide adjustable shoulder strap with nice leather braid. Constructed out of nice thick, but supple leather with a single gusseted bottom. For $84 the quality can't be beat.