My first muzzleloader

[Slamfire]

Both round balls and conicals are easily available on the net. See the links. :thumbsup: Of course shipping and handling will be added to the price. Takes the place of sales tax, kinda. :rotf:

 

shark where are you at? and remember ask questions it give alot of us a chance to give something back to a sport that is our passion.

 

[Zonie]

While I recommended the .490 ball, you can also use a .495 diameter ball.
It loads a little harder and might like a .012-.015 thick patch but they cost the same as the .490 balls.

I wouldn't bother with a sabot. Most of them are made to be used with jacketed or lead bullets (which can cost a lot more than balls).
The bullets also produce much greater recoil so IMO, they are not as much fun to shoot.

Beware the brush. Most bore brushes are bronze or brass and they are made to be used with modern guns where the brush can pass completly thru the bore.
With a traditional muzzleloader the breech plug is never removed so running a bore brush down the bore is a good way to get the thing stuck in there.
They stick because the bristles bend backwards as it goes down. Unfortunatly they don't want to reverse the direction they are bent so they lock themselves in the bore. If this happens, you can try to rotate the cleaning rod clockwise while applying a light pulling force. That allows the brush to bend to the side and then reverse.

The best way to get a bore brush out though is not to stick it in in the first place.

 

[-h@rKByte]

I live in southern Ohio, I have some gun stores around me. Also it sounds like I will not bother with a brush :haha: . What about a modern cotton swab? Also should I just oil it up really good to store it? And when I get it out I should use a dry patch to kinda remove the oil so the powder does not stick. Also as said, I can get powder here. I wanted to know how long does a pound of powder last? And is pyrodex better than 777? or the other way around, or what? Also what size patch would I use with a .490 ball? And how much powder would I use?

Thanks a lot!,
- $h@rK

 

[Pittsburghunter]

To start they sell premade lubed patches from T/C that I believe are .015 and match the .490 balls perfect.

Amount of powder? If you are just killing targets I would start with 50g FFF black powder or 60g Pyrodex RS. (I will not will not give load data for Pyrodex P in a rifle because I have never tried it)

Hunting rounds 70gFFF or FF bp or 80g Pyrodex.

My min loads. Max loads are in your rifles manual.

If you want to clean the oil out before you shoot alchohol patch followed by a dry one and also pop a cap or two through it.

 

[greenneck]

Sharkbyte, use about 70 grains of powder to start with - the volume equivalent of 70 grains of black powder, that is. This is a medium load, not too tough for target shooting and a little on the weak side for hunting. You can go up or down form there once you get more familiar with the gun.

A pound of powder contains 7000 grains and will last you about 100 shots. Substitutes like 777 are actually lighter than black powder, so you'll get more than 100 shots out of a pound when using the 70 grain volume equivalent. $20 a pound for 777 sounds about right.

Which powder is better? You will get a different answer from everyone you ask that. So let me tell you what I think of the powders and substitutes I have tried. Real black powder (I have used Goex so far) is often hard to get, fouls the barrel somewhat with corrosive residue and stinks like no other - it's the real thing. Easy to ignite, too, so any gun that is prone to misfire will benefit from using real BP. There are three types available here in the US as far as I know: Goex, Swiss and Kik. Search for "Swiss" and "Kik" on this forum to find out more about those.

Pyrodex is just as dirty as black powder in my experience and considerably harder to ignite. It comes as "P" (like 3F) and "RS" or "Select" (like 2F). The residue is also corrosive, so the rifle MUST be cleaned the same day after a shooting session.

777 is hotter than black or Pyrodex so the charge has to be reduced by about 15% (giving more shots per pound). The fouling is not corrosive itself, but it will attract moisture quickly, so cleaning the same day is also needed. It cleans up completely with just water which is kinda nice. The fouling can create a hard buildup, especially where the ball or bullet sits atop the powder - I had to swab the barrel with a damp patch after every second shot when I was using 777.

Then there is Black Mag 3 if you can find it. More expensive at $30 a pound but very clean and not corrosive at all. It also is a little hotter than BP,just like the 777, but ignites almost as easily as real BP. Overall the best substitute of the three by far, in my opinion.

There are others like Goex Pinnacle (rather new) and American Pioneer Powder which I have not tried myself yet.

As far as patches go, I would recommend that you buy some pre-cut and lubricated patches to begin with (around $6 for 100). .010 and .015 thickness patches are good for initial experimentation until you get a feel for how tight the bore on your gun really is and what ball/patch combination it likes. I like easy loading, and the .010 patch will ensure that. You can go for top accuracy with a tighter patch later when your rifle has been broken in. Places like Mid South Shooting Supplies sell these patches.

Cleaning patches (not the same as the ones you shoot with!) can be cut from old cotton T-shirts. I buy cleaning patches from WalMart that come in a bag of 200 for just under $2. I cut the big ones into smaller pieces of proper size. As has been mentioned, you will need a jag on your ramrod to get the patches back out again.

Before shooting I run a cleaning patch saturated with rubbing alcohol down the bore to get rid of the oil and then follow up with a dry patch or two. After cleaning I saturate a cleaning patch with RemOil and run that through the bore a few times to get the gun ready for storage.

I hope you'll have as much fun "smoking" as I do.

Steve

 

[-h@rKByte]

I don't have a manual, thats my biggest problem. would 777 be FFF black powder? Thanks a lot for the patch specs. I will see If I can't get some of them around here. I know I sound like I'm a total tard, but I don't know much at all about BP rifles.

Thanks,
- $h@rK

 

[-h@rKByte]

This is very helpful! Thank you.

What if I use my cleaning kit I have now. I have a cleaning patch head that screws right onto a rod. It looks kinda like a big needle head. Would this work? I like to use Lucas gun oil,could I use this type of oil for storage and cleaning?

Thanks,
-$h@rK

 

[-h@rKByte]

Would these patches work? They seem to be a great price too :grin: .
[url] http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=932337[/url]

- $h@rK

 

[Rebel]

They would work, but that is really expensive. You can buy a yard of pillow ticking at Wal Mart for a few dollars and get a lot of pathes out of it for a .50 cal. Melt ya some Crisco in a shallow pan and soak a 1 1/2" wide strip of the ticking that will be about 36" long, in it and then drain it on a few paper towels. Start your ball and patch just below the muzzle with your short starter, and then cut the excess patching with a sharp knife. You get a perfectly round patch that the ball is centered on. :thumbsup:

 

[greenneck]

If you want to do it in a more traditional way, follow Rebel's advice. For the very beginning stage like where you are, I suggest you buy the first couple hundred patches pre-made until you are confident enough in your knowledge and experience to try the more traditional and thus more home-made ways.

The problem I have with the patches shown in the link you provided is that they do not state the thickness. They are also kind of expensive, as Rebel noted. Try these and look for similar items:
[url] http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=001065155[/url]

Make sure you get the "lubricated" ones and not the "oiled" ones. Get the patches for .54-.58 caliber, even if you have a .50 gun, they are easier to load.

Now to your other question about the ramrod attachment: What you describe appears to be a "slotted tip". That's great, even necessary, for cleaning out a patent breech, but a "jag" is what is really needed for the cleaning patch use. This "jag" is a cylindrical attachment, just under bore size that has angled grooves cut around the circumference such that a cotton patch will be caught on the way OUT. I assume that you do not want to put a patch down bore and then have to leave it there... Here is a picture of one for .50 cal with a 10-32 thread:
[url] http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000309085[/url]

One last piece of advice, this one unsolicited: Buy a CO2 discharger, and buy it NOW! You WILL load a ball without powder underneath, you WILL get your ramrod stuck on flash rusting while trying to clean the barrel, you WILL get frustrated or angry at times when something or other does not want to budge out of that blasted barrel that you just cant open at the other end. It is your destiny...

Dixie Gun Works has those CO2 dischargers and you can buy replacement CO2 cartridges at Walmart (cheapest place I have found) if you ever need them. Here is a link to the CO2 thingamajigger:
[url] http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=9299[/url]

Believe me, this thing will save you a lot of headaches and it is really cool. So cool, in fact, that even my 16 year old son thinks it is cool!

Phwomp! Now that was easy!

Steve

 

[AZ-Robert]

I wanted to know how long does a pound of powder last?

A pound of powder is 7,000 grains. If you are using 70 grain loads, that is about 100 shots. If you are using 50 grain loads, that is about 140 shots. Etc.

 

[-h@rKByte]

I think I have one of thouse jag things.

Thanks,
- $h@rK

 

[-h@rKByte]

So what is the best way to clean my gun? What steps would I take, what tools would I use, ect.?

Thanks,
- $h@rK

 

[-h@rKByte]

Well I called up another one of my local gun shops, and they seem to have everything I need . So I will go down there some time soon, and see what they half to say.

Thanks,
- $h@rK

 

[Zonie]

To clean your gun you need regular cleaning patches, not the ones you use for shooting.

If you don't have one, get a brass "jag" (looks like a grooved plug that screws on the end of a cleaning rod). You will also need water and some soap.

I like to remove the barrel from my guns, remove the nipple and place the breech end into a bucket of water.
Wet a patch and soap it up real good. Place it on the jag and run it down the barrel. When you pull the cleaning rod/jag/patch back up, it will suck water in thru the nipple hole and wash out the flame channel.
Pump the rod a few times and switch to a clean wet patch.
Continue with the pumping 5-15 more times and remove the barrel from the bucket.
Drain the water out and then start running dry patches down the bore until it's dry.

I usually hold the breech of the barrel over my kitchen stove for a few minutes to heat it and evaporate the water that may be in the breech threads and flame channel.

I then use Birchwood Casey Sheath and lube the bore and breech plug threads (if I can see them).

Wash out the nipple. Dry it and grease the threads with the bore butter or Crisco and reinstall it.
Your done!!

 

[-h@rKByte]

Wow! sounds like a lot of work lol . How would I go about taking my barrel off?

Thanks,
- $h@rK

 

[Sham66]

Howdy,

OK, I must be missing something. I am familiar with the jag you describe, but how does it hold a patch?

Thanks!

James

 

[jethro224]

Howdy,

OK, I must be missing something. I am familiar with the jag you describe, but how does it hold a patch?

Thanks!

James

Magic! :grin:


If the jag is the right size for the barrel, the sides of the barrel smoosh the patch into the grooves in the jag. Makes a nice tight seal. Works great. :thumbsup:

 

[AZ-Robert]

How would I go about taking my barrel off?

If your rifle looks like this:
[url] http://www.ardesa.com/avancarga/eng/pop_hawk.htm[/url]

...it is pretty easy. Take the ramrod out and set it aside. Then just push out that metal wedge that goes through those oval plates on the forearm. Lift the barrel out, muzzle end first. Use something that won't scratch the metal to help you push that wedge out, and "squeeze" the barrel and forearm together while doing it to relieve the pressure on the wedge.

My guns don't have those wedges. The barrels are pinned to the stock with what amounts to headless nails. I don't take the barrels out to clean them, though some people do. Instead, I push a toothpick into the vent hole (the flinter's equivalent of a nipple), stand the gun up, and then fill the barrel with water. I push the cleaning rod down the bore until I get some pressure, then I pull out the toothpick and push the water out the barrel that way. If doing it indoors, make sure it is aimed to go into a bucket otherwise you'll have a huge mess. From there, it is the same as Zonie recommends, though I don't heat the barrel over the stove (might scorch the stock!). I use a dry pipe cleaner to make sure the vent and fire channel are dry, and then a pipe cleaner with some WD40 on it to chase any water that might be trying to hide in there.