Muzzle velocity

[Grenadier1758]

There's Traditions and Pedersoli. Once Lyman gets their recall under control and the questionable breeches replaced they will have a production 0.45 for round ball.

 

[Britsmoothy]

There are no .45 production rifles for patched ball anymore. It's all custom builds that cost a good bit more and most that buy custom go bigger bore. So... there is less information either past or present.

https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/s...rifles-frontier-frontier-flintlock-model.html

 

[azmntman]

I cant tell ya where, maybe cheaper than dirt or midway :idunno: but I just in the last few days saw a KY and a Hawkin production rifle for sale new or in kit form. They still exist.

 

[azmntman]

Deer creek has a traditions deer hunter (hawkinish .45 rifle) and a KY .45 rifle available.

 

[juancho]

.45 cal, 2100 fps with 75 grains FFFG and spit patch, 44 inch long green mountain barrel . flintlock and a flat face breech with a .050 white liner touch hole. Or 1244 foot pounds at the muzzle.
27 grains FFFG , gives me just shy of 400 FPE at the muzzle, wich is the legal limit for small game in my area , when there is a big game season opened.

 

[Rifleman1776]

.45 cal, 2100 fps with 75 grains FFFG

Was that velocity determined with a chronograph?

 

[Zonie]

I bet the shot was made using a silk patch. :rotf:

Lyman's BLACK POWDER HANDBOOK & LOADING MANUAL, 2nd edition says they had to use 120 grains of GOEX 3Fg and 110 grains of Pyrodex RS, Select and P to get their .45 shooting a patched roundball over the 2100 fps mark.

 

[hanshi]

In chronographing BP, flint and percussion, there is very little progression of velocities that makes a lot of sense. Velocities vary and swing wildly as charges are increased. A ten grain increase in the powder charge might give 30 fps while the next
increase of only 5 grains gives a 200 fps boost. And then there are variables such as individual barrels, changes in patching and lube that are in no way subtle. I found a simple change in lube and patch giving OVER 200 fps in increased speed in one rifle.

 

[Walks with fire]

Seems like a .45 should be able to reach 2100 fps fairly easily without a huge powder load. I know barrel length is a big issue with the .45 patch ball loads. I have seen chronograph loads for a .495 patched ball with 110 grains Goex 3f from a 32" GM barrel making 2100 fps. so I would think a .45 could get there with a bit less powder. I don't know for sure but it only makes sense.

 

[tenngun]

You can get it to 2100 fps, but it loses something on the order of 500 fps in twentyfive yards.

 

[juancho]

Yes it was, my other 45 with a 42 inch barrel(a Pedersoli), can only do 1850 fps wit a 90 grains of 3f. My 54 can do also 1850 fps with 120 grains of 3f.
I spent many afternoons at the range with the crony going thru most of my guns while working up a load.
I don't care anymore about the speed , as long as I hit the target.
My recurve bow does 224 fps , and has gone clean thru a big doe cutting ribs on the way in and on the way out.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Yes it was, my other 45 with a 42 inch barrel(a Pedersoli), can only do 1850 fps wit a 90 grains of 3f. My 54 can do also 1850 fps with 120 grains of 3f.
I spent many afternoons at the range with the crony going thru most of my guns while working up a load.
I don't care anymore about the speed , as long as I hit the target.
My recurve bow does 224 fps , and has gone clean thru a big doe cutting ribs on the way in and on the way out.

Thanks. That is interesting info. But, IMHO, for shooting a prb high velocities gain little in performance. We are dealing with an obsolete technology and a projectile that has the ballistic characteristics of a brick. Within it's limits, a prb will drop game just fine. It's the game we chose and if we understand those limits we can enjoy our crazy avocation.

 

[tenngun]

We grew up with mv and flbs and ballistic charts. That’s not what traditional ml is about. It’s a crappie gun. Low velocity, low energy short range.
You can never get a ml to compare with a modern gun. Nor can you get archery tackle to compare with an ml.
I started out with the load for bear, and I learned all I was doing was making a lot of smoke. I didn’t add a foot to my effective range, I didn’t make one deer any deader.
Can I hit the target at random ranges within my maximum range? Can I hit in the rain and under variable light conditions. Will it cause a quick death. That’s the game we play.

 

[hanshi]

Yes, it doesn't take a big load of powder and/or high velocity to take game. The extra speed at the muzzle is mostly gone around 50 to 100 yards. For deer hunting anything between 1600 fps and 1800 fps , in a .45, is more than enough and will reach out to around 100 yards with enough power and accuracy. For calibers larger than .45, dropping velocity down from there will still do the job and then some.

 

[George]

You can get it to 2100 fps, but it loses something on the order of 500 fps in twentyfive yards.

Fact check:

Using velocities from Lyman Black Powder Handbook 1975, .45 caliber, 43" barrel, .445" ball of 133 grains, BC = .063, percussion, G-O 3F powder

80 grains MV 2105, at 25 yards 1805, loss = 300 fps
40 grains MV 1665, at 25 yards 1416, loss = 249 fps

Reported loss at 25 yards = 500 fps
Actual loss at 25 yards = 300 fps

Exaggeration for effect = 200 fps, 40%

Tenngun's handicap from this point forward = 40% :haha: :haha:

Don't you just love numbers. :wink:

Spence

 

[tenngun]

Hadn’t looked it up exactly but was making a guesstamet based on how poor a ball keeps velocity. That does represent about 1/7 loss in seventy five feet. And I did say something on the order of..... so is not 300 fps something on the order of 500 fps....you know kinda like what the meaning of is is :haha:

 

[Walks with fire]

First I want the most accurate load a barrel will provide. I seek all shots touching at 50 yards and less than 3" at 100 yards. I will test at 50 until I can achieve the 1 ragged hole grouping with the highest charge I can get. I want the flattest trajectory as possible. The maximum charge in most barrels is 100-120 grains for .50/.54 calibers.

Barrel lengths make a difference here. A barrel in the 24" range does not compare to a 36" barrel. The short barrel can be charged up but accuracy will suffer. A charge that is not consumed will have excessive gases pushing on the patch as it exits the bore and that will affect the accuracy. I do not want a midrange trajectory of 3" I want 1". I adjust the sighted in range to achieve that and the limit the range for that barrel to it's drop from there to 3".

A short barrel can be just as accurate but it won't achieve the same trajectory or power at the longer 100 yard line. The difference is the extra 25 yards of range.

As an example my .50 caliber 32" 1/70 twist load is 2100 fps. and is 1" high thru 50-75 yards and down 1.5" at 100 yards with 80 yard sight in. If I jack it up to 3" midrange the 125 yards is the sight in and it's down 5" at 150. None of my shorter barrels can do that.

 

[George]

Hadn’t looked it up exactly but was making a guesstamet based on how poor a ball keeps velocity. That does represent about 1/7 loss in seventy five feet. And I did say something on the order of..... so is not 300 fps something on the order of 500 fps....you know kinda like what the meaning of is is :haha:

Yes, I think I understand. :wink:

You and others make a big thing of the velocity loss of balls with high MV, but you never tell the whole story. I understand, it makes a better story. But, look at the low MV above, 1665 fps with half the powder which drops 249 fps to 1425 at 25 yards. That's only 50 fps less loss than the fast ball. That means that the actual loss of velocity caused by the extra drag of the fast ball is 50 fps, not the actual 300 or your reported 500. That little fact is never mentioned. For the sake of the story, of course. :grin:

Spence

 

[azmntman]

:surrender: When I shoot a deer or elk and it ends up in the freezer (my personal definition of a "trophy" :grin: ) I don't believe I have ever cared or thought about how fast my balls were moving when they passed through the beast

 

[George]

:surrender: When I shoot a deer or elk and it ends up in the freezer (my personal definition of a "trophy" :grin: ) I don't believe I have ever cared or thought about how fast my balls were moving when they passed through the beast

That's a perfectly acceptable way to do it. Not my way, but I know most people would choose your way. Aren't we lucky to have choices.

Spence