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miroku? flintlock

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feamir

32 Cal
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I have just purchased a japanese flintlock musket, looks exactly like the one pictured in capt turks post in smoothbore forum. I am doing a total tear down, clean and inspect. I have it done except for removing the forward portion of the stock from the barrel. Has any one completely disassembled this gun? It looks like there might be another screw hidden under the second ram rod tube. Any help would be appreciated.
thanks, Feamir
 
Please post a picture, asap. There are some flintlock smooth bores floating around that should have been recalled 40 years ago. The were made either in Japan or China. about 68 or 69 caliber and the first 10 or 12 inches or so of the breech area of the barrel was octagon. then the barrel abruptly changed to straight round. The frizzens were not properly hardened and rarely sparked. (which was good in a way) the barrels were three parts. the breech plug, the first 10 or 12 inches of the barrel in Octagon (or perhaps hexagon) and then the round "pipe" part of the barrel was screwed into the hexagon or octagon part. The problem is the joint where the Oct/hex piece meets the round part. the barrels often had a rough lip around the interior of the barrel at that joint which acts as a barrel obstruction. I worked at a store that sold those POS, and two brothers were killed by one exploding outside of Philadelphia back around November 1977. My co worker sold them the gun. A week later, the importer called and wanted all the unsold ones sent back, which we did, but we sold a couple dozen and had no idea who bought them. There was a similarly built pistol as well. But it looked nearly identical to a pistol from the same importer that had a solid one piece barrel. I have seen two of them come up on Gun broker over the last five years and I notify the sellers, but I do not know if they then acted responsibly.

Your gun may be a good one. I have never seen a Miroku smooth bore musket to know if that is different or the same POS we stocked back then. I wouldn't want to just come out and say you bought a lemon without seeing a picture, but I also would not you to need plastic surgery or worse because I kept quiet.
 
I FOUND CAPT TURK"S GUN PICTURE> if that is your gun, DO NOT TRY TO SHOOT IT. THAT IS THE POS. Clean it up, shine it up, hang it over your fire place, March around with it on Memorial day, use it as a post to hold pole beans but do not shoot it.
 
I FOUND CAPT TURK"S GUN PICTURE> if that is your gun, DO NOT TRY TO SHOOT IT. THAT IS THE POS. Clean it up, shine it up, hang it over your fire place, March around with it on Memorial day, use it as a post to hold pole beans but do not shoot it.
Thanks for the info Z. I have another musket that is identical to the one in capt turks pictures, I have shot it many times. The new one has a different butstock decoration, not a patch box. It also does not list ultra-high as the maker, nor does it say "proof tested". Neither of the barrels has any ring inside the bore. I'm going to have the barrel magnafluxed, as I can have this done for nada at my shop. I did find that there was a second screw that attached the fore stock to the barrel. I was interested to see that you had previously posted about capt turks gun.

"I worked in a sporting goods store out side of Philadelphia in 1977 and we sold two varieties of that gun. They both looked nearly the same and fortunately they rarely threw sparks enough to ignite powder.

One variety, looking very similar to the other. BUT, on one the round part of the barrel was screwed into the octagon part. There was a noticeable ring around the interior of the bore about an inch breechward from where the round met the oct. It could be felt by simply running the ram rod down the bore carefully with the edge of the ram rod sliding on the bore. About April or May 1978, the chain received a notice to pack up all the ones with the three piece barrels and ship them back to the wholesaler.

IIRC, two brothers outside Phila tried to use one for small game and couldn't get it to go off. One held it while the other used a lighter to ignite the pan. They were both killed. Would have been fall 1977 or winter 1977-1978. We heard they loaded powder wad and shot from a modern shot shell. Don't know if that part of the powder was true, but I remember the news reports on TV and radio. I sold the gun to one of them two weeks earlier."

At that time you said " We heard they loaded powder wad and shot from a modern shot shell" , why not repeat this info?
 
No help here but ... pictures are worth a thousand words

Thanks big Ted, I don't have a camera so I cant post pictures. I did find a second screw that attached the fore stock to the barrel so my disassembly is complete.
 
Easy to tell if it was the POS. stick a needle through a dowel at an angle so it will fit down the barrel. slide it down the barrel. at about that one inch breechward from the union, the pin will bump or catch on that lip like a bad corrosion pit, but it will be nearly all the way round. It has been a lot of years. IIRC the POS barrel was in the white and the better barrel was blued or blackened some how. As I recall on some of the guns it was possible to see a portion of a thread where the pieces met. I was not on duty when a police officer came in a few days afterward and had a receipt asking about the sale and gun. We had already heard about it on the radio but at that point did not know it had anything to do with what we sold, until the officer came in. Some of what I know is second hand, but I ended up taking the call when the importer, perhaps from Vermont, called and asked for our unsold units. I don't recall if I packed them up or assigned the packing job to one of the sales clerks. The similar looking but better guns had barrels that were one piece from end to end. But were turned on a lathe to look almost the same.

There was a similarly built Zouave reproduction that had a three piece barrel, but the tang, breech bolster and plug was a big single forged unit and had female threads. The barrel also had female threads and the two pieces were held together with a short piece that looked exactly like a one inch pipe nipple. The pipe nipple was only perhaps 1/16 or 3/32nds thick where the breech met the barrel. that was not much metal to hold all that pressure. I have seen other muzzle loaders that are truly scary, but not as bad as that POS.

as for whether the brothers used smokeless, that be irrelevant is the lip around the interior thread union creates a barrel obstruction. I have seen well made barrels that fail and split open just from a short started ball. I cringe when I hear these Bubba types brag about their 180 grains of Super Nuclear Whup Butt substitute powder under a 1200 grain Elephant skinner bullet Some poor idiot is going to put that load in one of those old Dixie wire twist barrel shot guns and lose more than fingers.

Sorry to rant on, but understand those guns violate a standard rule of safety with that internal lip. In some or many that lip might be smooth enough to never make a difference. Other than it might be a place for fouling to lay and start corroding the steel.
 

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