Maximum loads for 1858 Remington

[user 33697]

While we are on this subject, what load would you recommend for a 1858 Rem brass frame and a 1851 Colt Replica brass frame? Dale
Edit: both are in fine condition.

There have been several posts in the forum concerning brass frame revolvers and loads. Below are some links on the subject.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/loads-for-a-pietta-1858-brass-remington-44-cal.14910/
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/random-observations-on-revolver-shooting.161795/
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/load-data-for-a-brass-frame-1860.132724/
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/frame-stretch.130285/

 

[M. De Land]

I’m attempting to find the maximum load for an 8 inch Pietta 44 caliber 1858 Remington using the Kerr bullet from Erasgone, and also wondering about historic loadings

Would it be possible to use the Kerr bullet over 35 grains of 3F? What about 40? Or is 30 all that would fit? I would be using either triple 7 or Swiss.

What load would historically been used in paper cartridges?

Would it be safe to use 4F or Swiss 0b? Is it even possible to find Swiss 0b? I doubt that would be safe in an original, but what about these modern reproductions? Generally 4F is for priming only, but I wonder…

My goal, if possible, is to get a Kerr to 1,000 feet per second or better.

I should provide context. My entry in to the world of cap and ball has 3 main reasons: 1: fun, it is a lot of fun 2: possible use in cowboy action and 3 (The main one): as a backup in a no ammo scenario. I still remember the last panic and the empty ammo shelves and damn near $2 a round for 9mm plinking rounds, and it’s still not entirely over as prices are still not quite back to pre panic levels. What if that happens again, and what if the ammo does not come back (I’ll leave the reason up to you), how do I get ammo? Well I do reload, but to this day finding primers is not simple and I categorically refuse to pay $90-$100+ for a box of 1,000, and during a panic powder is an issue getting too, as are casings, and bullets. I see cap and ball as a work around, I can mold my own bullets from scrap lead, I don’t need casings, and if I really have to I can make my own percussion caps too (and they will not sell out right away like everything else, though they eventually do), so they are a way to keep shooting. Also, should the time ever come when I am even out of my defensive ammo they are something that I can carry, that’s mostly my reasoning to find the max load, close range defense, and at 1,000+ feet per second (or even close) a heavy conical like a kerr would rival even some modern ammo for power.

Why the Kerr? Because conicals are better and the Kerr is the only historical bullet that will fit all the modern reproductions (the Johnson and Dow is close but there are some that even it won’t fit).

Some Ideas I would like to try probably in my ROA is to drop tube powder into each chamber and possibly also to try, 2 or 3 stage powder compressions using the ramer, as an alternative.
We use drop tubing a lot to increase powder charge in mid and long range black powder cartridge work. I have a half inch ID anodized aluminum drop tube 30 inches long that does a really nice job.
Both will yield more powder capacity by removing air space between the grains.

 

[Stantheman86]

I load my Uberti .44 ca. 8" barrel Remington NMA with the following chronograph averages using a .454 ball with no ill effects.

25 gr. Triple 7 averaged 881 fps for a calculated 241 ft-lbs energy
30 gr. Triple 7 averaged 990 fps for a calculated 305 ft-lbs energy

I would not go much beyond 30 gr. of Triple 7.

I use 30gr of 777 "2f" in my Pietta .44 Navies , with a .454 ball and it's accurate and powerful

I plan on trying 35gr of the same 777 in my Uberti 1858 Carbine

 

[smoothshooter]

I’m attempting to find the maximum load for an 8 inch Pietta 44 caliber 1858 Remington using the Kerr bullet from Erasgone, and also wondering about historic loadings

Would it be possible to use the Kerr bullet over 35 grains of 3F? What about 40? Or is 30 all that would fit? I would be using either triple 7 or Swiss.

What load would historically been used in paper cartridges?

Would it be safe to use 4F or Swiss 0b? Is it even possible to find Swiss 0b? I doubt that would be safe in an original, but what about these modern reproductions? Generally 4F is for priming only, but I wonder…

My goal, if possible, is to get a Kerr to 1,000 feet per second or better.

I should provide context. My entry in to the world of cap and ball has 3 main reasons: 1: fun, it is a lot of fun 2: possible use in cowboy action and 3 (The main one): as a backup in a no ammo scenario. I still remember the last panic and the empty ammo shelves and damn near $2 a round for 9mm plinking rounds, and it’s still not entirely over as prices are still not quite back to pre panic levels. What if that happens again, and what if the ammo does not come back (I’ll leave the reason up to you), how do I get ammo? Well I do reload, but to this day finding primers is not simple and I categorically refuse to pay $90-$100+ for a box of 1,000, and during a panic powder is an issue getting too, as are casings, and bullets. I see cap and ball as a work around, I can mold my own bullets from scrap lead, I don’t need casings, and if I really have to I can make my own percussion caps too (and they will not sell out right away like everything else, though they eventually do), so they are a way to keep shooting. Also, should the time ever come when I am even out of my defensive ammo they are something that I can carry, that’s mostly my reasoning to find the max load, close range defense, and at 1,000+ feet per second (or even close) a heavy conical like a kerr would rival even some modern ammo for power.

Why the Kerr? Because conicals are better and the Kerr is the only historical bullet that will fit all the modern reproductions (the Johnson and Dow is close but there are some that even it won’t fit).

The maximum load is the heaviest one that will fit in the chambers.

 

[nkbj]

And the accuracy load is the one that shoots best with a given bullet.
Brassless don't mean you caint hit nothing. Just means you caint see it if the wind stops blowing.

 

[Lone Carabiner]

loading a Lee mold slug over 28 gr 3F is a 'compressed load' in a '58 Rem OA which I've shot through scrub pine saplings - and a dressed weight of nearly 200 lb feral boar, through the lungs busting a rib. range around 40'. over bait as they're 'destructive specie' now. ground blind shot.

 

[Bad Karma]

That should do the trick, i cast mine at 9-11 brinell, they seem to shoot well. those 220s have killed 2 deer at the furthest range ive shot deer. The 185s killed a big doe out of my 58 Remington at 34 paces. So the old guns have what it takes when fed properly. Do you have any pictures of the Kerrs after the rammer flattens them out?

Hey Pete… here’s a view of the flattened Kerr… and twelve shots offhand at 25 yards. Yeah they’re hitting pretty high

 

[muzzleloadingat18]

I’m attempting to find the maximum load for an 8 inch Pietta 44 caliber 1858 Remington using the Kerr bullet from Erasgone, and also wondering about historic loadings

Would it be possible to use the Kerr bullet over 35 grains of 3F? What about 40? Or is 30 all that would fit? I would be using either triple 7 or Swiss.

What load would historically been used in paper cartridges?

Would it be safe to use 4F or Swiss 0b? Is it even possible to find Swiss 0b? I doubt that would be safe in an original, but what about these modern reproductions? Generally 4F is for priming only, but I wonder…

My goal, if possible, is to get a Kerr to 1,000 feet per second or better.

I should provide context. My entry in to the world of cap and ball has 3 main reasons: 1: fun, it is a lot of fun 2: possible use in cowboy action and 3 (The main one): as a backup in a no ammo scenario. I still remember the last panic and the empty ammo shelves and damn near $2 a round for 9mm plinking rounds, and it’s still not entirely over as prices are still not quite back to pre panic levels. What if that happens again, and what if the ammo does not come back (I’ll leave the reason up to you), how do I get ammo? Well I do reload, but to this day finding primers is not simple and I categorically refuse to pay $90-$100+ for a box of 1,000, and during a panic powder is an issue getting too, as are casings, and bullets. I see cap and ball as a work around, I can mold my own bullets from scrap lead, I don’t need casings, and if I really have to I can make my own percussion caps too (and they will not sell out right away like everything else, though they eventually do), so they are a way to keep shooting. Also, should the time ever come when I am even out of my defensive ammo they are something that I can carry, that’s mostly my reasoning to find the max load, close range defense, and at 1,000+ feet per second (or even close) a heavy conical like a kerr would rival even some modern ammo for power.

Why the Kerr? Because conicals are better and the Kerr is the only historical bullet that will fit all the modern reproductions (the Johnson and Dow is close but there are some that even it won’t fit).

I can fit 60 gn of pyrodex p and a round ball haven't died yet so if it's safe.