Main Spring Vise

[rickystl]

Hello All. This Thread may get moved, but I thought I would first ask those who build/restore guns.
Here is a photo of the typical mainspring and frizzen spring vises offered today that you are all familiar with. The mainspring vise works well for typical French style flintlocks. Also works for snaphaunce, doglocks, etc.
However, the current mainspring vises offered do not work with miquelet style locks with their external mainsprings and extra long end.
So my question is: Has anyone ever seen an original mainspring vise for miquelet style locks ?
I have never even seen a photo of one. There is really nothing about them discussed in either Neil's or Levin's books on Spanish arms. There was only mention in an American Rifleman magazine from a long time ago that Spanish gunsmiths from the period kept a large range of vise sizes for everything from pocket pistols to wall guns. But I've never even seen a photo of one. Wonder where they all went. LOL
I guess you could have one (or more) vises made (?)
But you would at least need a photo of what one looked like. LOL
The Rifle Shoppe offers miquelet locks for sale. So I sent them an email asking them what they use. They would have to use something. LOL But you probably know what the chances are of me getting a response. :haha:
Any help in this regard is most appreciated.

Rick

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

Not really sure about this? It does cite Gun Report Magazine-August 1984 --Page 67 as having the answer you're looking for:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/miquelet-mainspring-vise-miquelet-1898940344

 

[dave_person]

Hi Ricky,
I have no idea what the Spaniards used as spring vises but I wonder if this one would do the job. It is sold by Tom Curran and Jim Chambers.

dave

 

[rickystl]

Obi: Thank you very much !!!! Most helpful.
It appears that the original vises used one edge of the lock plate itself to support the vise while compressing the spring. I've always thought this might be the case. Makes sense.
I can't imagine these would be any more difficult to make than the existing vises available. I guess there is not enough interest in the miquelet lock to justify making them :haha:
But sure would be interesting to know what TRS uses.
Thanks again for the Link. Much appreciated.
Rick

 

[rickystl]

Hi Dave

That's one vise I haven't seen. Hmmm.....don't think it will work on miquelet locks (?) But it may be good for other locks. I'll have to order one. Thanks.

Speaking of frizzen spring vises: Another issue with miquelet locks is that most (not all) have a one-piece pan cover and support arm that extends back to the hammer. This pan cover usually has to be removed first to get access to the frizzen spring. It often comepletely covers up the frizzen spring. This will also give more access to the top leaf of the mainspring.

It's all rather tricky to do without the proper vise. :cursing: :haha:

Thanks again. Rick

 

[In Over My Head]

Not really sure about this? It does cite Gun Report Magazine-August 1984 --Page 67 as having the answer you're looking for:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/miquelet-mainspring-vise-miquelet-1898940344

In that link I find it hard to accept that the first and second photos are of the same vise.

 

[Davemuzz]

I believe the second pic is simply the opposite side of the first pic, the first being the vise laid horizontally and the second, vertically.

 

[Black Hand]

Not really sure about this? It does cite Gun Report Magazine-August 1984 --Page 67 as having the answer you're looking for: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/miquelet-mainspring-vise-miquelet-1898940344[/quote]
In that link I find it hard to accept that the first and second photos are of the same vise.

Why?
It is indeed the same vise rotated on a horizontal axis...

 

[In Over My Head]

Sorry! Old eyes. The shading in the patina was fooling me into seeing a flange in one photo that was not really there.

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

Glad I could help, I'm just hoping that is a mainspring vise for a miquelet and not a hose clamp for a Model T?

Have you tried contacting Larry Callahan and asking if he'll make you a custom vise for your lock?

 

[rickystl]

Hi Obi

Thanks again. I don't recall a Larry Callahan ? Does he make these type of devices ? How would I get in touch with him to ask ?

Thanks, Rick

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

He's very well known and respected in the muzzleloading community and I doubt there's something he couldn't make. It couldn't hurt to contact him and see if he'd be willing to make you one or point you in the right direction:
http://www.bagmolds.com/

 

[Artificer]

Hi Rick,

Here is what may be one of the most magnificent mainspring vises of the period, still extant. http://lennartviebahn.com/arms_armour/antiques/brescia_casamitlana.html

Though this one is marked as 18th century, I believe it is 17th century as well. https://www.jimbodetools.com/products/18th-century-5-1-2-inch-hand-forged-gunsmiths-tool-81458r

Here is an engraved plate of Gunsmith Tools from the French Diderot's Encyclopedia. Though Diderot's dates to the mid 1700's, Fig. 31 represents a mainspring vise that went well back into the 17th century as well. NOTE: You can click on the illustration and it enlarges very nicely to see the tools better. http://artflx.uchicago.edu/images/encyclopedie/V18/plate_18_9_4.jpeg

Here is what is also described as an 18th century mainspring vise, but again it could easily have gone back into the 17th century. I have one made similar to this one and used it before on locks where I could not get the two vises you pictured to work. https://www.jimbodetools.com/products/awesome-18th-century-gunsmiths-tool-68624u

Finally I don’t have an illustration for this one, but have seen simple vises that look like a block “C” from the side with a thumb screw that were also purported to have been used on Miquelet locks.

Gus

 

[rickystl]

Obi

AGAIN!! Thank you very much. I noticed Larry has the same area code as myself. LOL He must live near me. I'll give him a call.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

Hi Gus

Thanks so much for your Post - and history lesson on mainspring vises. Interesting.
I know what you mean by the "flat C" shape. All it would take is a variation of the one that Larry Callahan already makes. The current mainspring vises encompass just the spring itself because there is ready access to it. It would seem that a vise for a miquelet lock would have one end of the clamp portion braced against one edge of the lockplate itself. The screw portion would have no (or tiny) foot on the end of the screw touching the spring. That way the vise would work on both Spanish (heel) and Italian/Roman (toe) locks.

Rick

 

[Artificer]

Hi Rick,

Glad you enjoyed the period examples and you are most welcome.

While I was writing that post, I was trying to remember if I had ever disassembled a Miquelet lock, myself.

The oldest lock I know I have worked on was an original Japanese Tanageshima Matchlock with BRONZE springs that was over 300 years old when I worked on it. I have worked on a couple repro early European style Matchlocks as well. One early Snaphaunce I worked on had tapered pins it, rather than screws, to keep the internal lock parts in place. I know this is silly, but I think I worked one original Miquelet lock at the World Championships in the 90's, but don't remember much about it. OH, I know, I only disassembled it for the shooter to thoroughly clean it and then reassembled it. I used the vises you showed and the one early type I mentioned in my post above.

However, if you have a design in your head you could put on paper and from what others have mentioned about Larry, I'm sure he could fabricate one for you.

Also, I have been trying to remember where a thread is on this forum that showed original tools used for Matchlocks. Can't remember if it had mainspring vises in it, though. Maybe someone else will remember where that is?

Anyway, good luck on having a tool made.

Gus

 

[rickystl]

Gentlemen:

I spoke with Larry Callahan last night. Although he said he is not familiar with miquelet locks, he's sure he can make a variation of his mainspring vice to accommodate. And the irony is that he lives only 45 minutes away from me. What luck !! He's attending CLA next week so we will get together the following week. I'll take him and assortment of different miquelet locks from my collection, and see if we can come up with a design (I have one in mind) to accommodate all of them.
So, I want to once again thank everyone - especially Obi - for putting me in touch with Larry. Just goes to show the value of this Forum and networking.
I'll post an update with the new vises.

Rick :hatsoff: