Lock Problems

[don hepler]

First off, we don't know if the fly is missing. You need to remove the hammer and tumbler to see if it's there or use a flash light, if you can see it. Second, I can't imagine a bridle plate and a couple screws, being over $10. to $15. I'd get a price, before I done anything else.

 

[tryinhard]

How do I take the tumbler out with the main spring still engaged? Never took one out before.

 

[excess650]

How do I take the tumbler out with the main spring still engaged? Never took one out before.

You don't. Compress the mainspring to take tension off the tumbler, and then remove the mainspring and tumbler.

 

[Zonie]

Some thoughts about taking your lock apart.

First, let me say it is best to have a mainspring vise like they sell at TOTW or Dixie.
These have a long 'foot' on them that rests against the lower part of the spring. It spreads the load out making it much less likely that the spring will break.

Lacking one of those, if you want to take the risk, you might want to try using some Vise Grips.

I've looked at your lock photos and it looks like there is a lot of length aft of the upper end where the Vise Grips would have to grab.
That makes me suggest that using a piece of 1/8" thick steel under the lower leaf to spread the load might be a good idea.

Anyway, the vise or Vise Grips are not used to actually compress the spring. It is used to hold it in a compressed position.

To do this, cock the hammer to full cock. This will straighten out the lower leaf.

Put the support or mainspring vise on the spring so it is resting under the deflected lower leaf.

Using the thumb screw or knurled knob, close the jaws of the vise or Vise Grips so it is grasping the upper leaf and firmly restraining the lower leaf.

Now, release the sear to allow the hammer to fall.

If your lucky, the hammer will rotate far enough to completely release the tension on the now restrained mainspring.

Once this happens, gently rock the vise/Vise Grips and spring and its tab should pull out of the lockplate. Lay the spring & vise/Vise Grips aside.

With the mainspring removed, now remove the sear spring and its tab from the lockplate.
Now, remove the sear.

After removing the screw that holds the hammer onto the tumbler, get two pieces of wood that are at least 1/2" thick.

Place the blocks of wood, one on either side of the tumbler and sit it on a stout table or counter with the tumbler on the underside of the lockplate.

Get a drift or something made of steel, brass or copper that can fit down thru the square hole in the hammer and rest against the square drive on the tumbler.
.
Place it against the square end of the tumbler and use a small hammer/mallet to drive the tumblers square out of the hammer.

The tumbler will fall to the table.

You could also use a bench vise with the jaws opened up so the tumbler can fit down between them to support the lockplate. Do not clamp the jaws.

The only catch with the vise is when the tumbler is driven out of the hammer, it will fall to the floor and rapidly run under the biggest pile of manure on the floor that it can find.
It is very fast and can do this before you can see where it went.

Congratulations! Your lock is disassembled.

The only comments about reassembling the lock is you need to be careful about the position of the hammer before you tap it back in place on the tumbler. Also, it's usually a bad idea to try to use the hammer screw to force the hammer back on the tumbler square.

Have fun.

The

 

[tryinhard]

Alrighty. I finally called Traditions since they wouldn't email me back. The guy told me what parts I needed their numbers and cost. Looks like for around $10 and some shipping plus labor/education on my part I'll have a shootable firearm. I'm sure I'll be asking questions once I get the parts in.

 

[don hepler]

Bakeoven Bill, gave the link to your Traditions Lock Assembly. Study It.....Look at the bridle position (Part M). The two short screws (Part H),are shown in the diagram. Note: The long screw(Part G)must go through the bridle, the sear arm, and the sear spring (Part F). The bottom of the sear spring rests on the sear arm, and it is important that the "lip" or small protrusion on the sear spring, must fit into the indention on the lock plate. It might be a little tricky to get these all aligned. On most locks, the sear spring has it's own screw, by itself.
Was the fly (Part L), still on the tumbler, or did you have to buy it too?
There is a video, on youtube on Muzzleloader Maintenance, but it's not all that good. He doen't know the name of the bridle, or the fly.
Never squeeze a "Main spring" or a "Frizzen spring" any more than just enough to loosen it. They will break, if you collapse them too much. And don't over tighten the bridle screws, the tumble must move freely.

 

[mr.flintlock]

The Crockett rifle has double set triggers which require a tiny part called a fly in the tumbler.sounds like you may have bought the rifle used. My guess is that the fly is either sticking or is missing all-together. If you bought the rifle used, it is very possible that the previous owner disassembled the lock for cleaning and lost the fly. Like I said, it is tiny. If this is the case your lock will work perfectly when you remove it from the rifle and trip the sear by hand. If you remove the lock and look at the working parts of the rifle, Look at the tumbler and you should be able to see the fly in the recess of the tumbler.If the fly is missing, this part is cheap to replace.

 

[crockett]

I don't own one of the rifles but from what I can understand the rifle can be fired with the trigger set or unset. Can you fire the rifle unset and if so, does the hammer fall all the way down or still get hung up?

 

[fcderosa]

Sounds like you talked to John at Traditions. They don't do email but are real helpful when you get them on the phone. A new Traditions lock only runs about $60, they keep parts in stock, and ship relatively quick. If you look up your rifle under classic sidelocks click product information, click support file, click schematic, you'll get the take down diagram for your rifle along with part numbers to order replacement parts.

 

[azmntman]

"If you look up your rifle under classic sidelocks"


Where do we look that up? Sounds like a big help :thumbsup:

 

[fcderosa]

Just google; Traditions Muzzleloaders for their web site. Once on their site, click classic sidelocks, find and select your rifle, select product information, select support file, and then select schematic, you'll get the take down diagram for your rifle along with part numbers to order replacement parts.

I wish other muzzleloader manufacturers parts were as easily obtained.

 

[crockett]

One other thing. Eventually you will probably want to learn about how to take a lock apart for cleaning, etc. You need a main spring vise and they are not expensive. When you cock the hammer- that squeezes/depresses the main spring. That's when you put on the vise- to hold the spring in the clamped position. When you drop the hammer you can then easily remove the main spring.
Lot's of folks have a big cardboard box with a white sheet of cloth/paper and put the lock in there when you dismantle it. It is really pretty easy except if you want to remove the hammer from the lock plate- it is normally a tight fit and needs to be driven out. The fly that folks are talking about -it is about 3/16" long and maybe 1/16" wide and small.
In all probability the fly is missing or somehow got such and won't move properly.

 

[tryinhard]

There is no bridle. John explained everything to me and gave me the part numbers as well as prices. If I'd had my debit card on me I would've ordered the parts right then. Now I can't seem to get the time to order. They leave at the same time I do and I can't find where to order parts on their website.