Lock for Comment

[rickystl]

Hello all. This is a new addition to my lock collection.
My question is: Does this look like a late period English made lock?
It is a smaller lock. Plate measures 4 1/4" long by 15/16" wide. Has a roller on the frizzen spring. It has a threaded hole for only one lock plate screw. But the inside front of the lock plate has a "hook" that would position against some kind of bar to hold it in place.
There is traces of light engraving throughout. There is a name on the lock plate that appears to be English script. Looks like maybe G Hughes ?? But it so faint, I'm not sure. Maybe a little oil cleaning will bring the name out better.
The lock is well made, and in good working order. Smooth and positive.
The more I look at this lock, the more I think it came from a late flint English fowling piece, or even one of a pair mounted to a sporting shotgun?
Would appreciate your opinions. Here's a bunch of photos. Sorry the natural light was not better. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Yes, late English flint lock. It was a high quality lock installed on a top line firearm, likely a fowling piece made between 1800 and 1835, maybe a little later. Too bad someone let it get into it's current condition but glad to hear that it still functions well.

 

[wulf]

That is the most unusual method of attaching the
frizzen spring I have ever seen. Very different
but effective for using a thin spring...Someone
did a great job of antiquing it.....
Wulf

 

[Claude Mathis]

I must say, that brass screw has aged very well. :wink:

 

[hawkeye2]

You noticed that too. It looks like they could have found a screwdriver that fit better and not filed into the lock itself when they cut off the outer end of the screw.

It looks like a very late and high quality lock. I wonder why they went to so much trouble to attach a frizen spring though.

 

[pargent]

Looks very Manton ish

 

[rickystl]

Thank you guys for the comments. Agreed, has a very Manton-ish look to it.

I thought you guys would notice that frizzen spring mounting. I've never seen anything like it either. :idunno: The horizonal screw goes through the spacer and threads flush with the rear of the lock plate. The tiny vertical screw just threads half way into the spacer to hold the frizzen spring. Strange. :hmm: It all appears original to the lock (except the brass screw of course). But it sure seems like a lot of extra work. :idunno:
I'm letting the threads soak for a couple days in case my curiosity gets the best of me and I have to dis-assemble to study further.
Thanks for all your comments. Much appreciated. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[Dphar]

1800-1830 English technology. "French" cock.
This would be a dandy if it were not so abused.
Could be a Manton. But there were a lot of lock filers in England at the time and makers bought from lock filers in most cases rather than having an in house lock maker.

Dan

 

[rickystl]

Hi Dan. The lock looks like it was all rusted at one time and left to fester. It's been cleaned at some point. So I figure I have nothing to loose by doing a little light oil cleaning on the lock plate to see if I can read the name.
In any case, it makes a good addition to my lock collection. That frizzen spring mounting is just so unusual. Rick.

 

[tallbear]

Great little lock Ricky.I was watching it on the bay :thumbsup: I suspect the frizzen spring is a period replacement rather than original.Either way it's a geat piece of history.

Mitch

 

[rickystl]

Hi Mitch. Yes, I was glad to get it. Didn't have to pay much for it either. I'll probably end up taking it apart to study that frizzen spring set up further. Thanks, Rick.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Ricky,
There was a Charles Hughes, Christopher Hughes, and George Hughes working in London when your lock was probably made. There was also a Charles Hughes in Birmingham but he may be too late. The lug inside the front of the lock was intended to hook on an embedded screw head that held the front in place. That way only one lock bolt was needed. The feather spring is almost certainly an old replacement by someone who could not forge a proper feather spring. Anyone who has done that knows the portion where the screw is mounted can be tricky to forge. Nice lock and an interesting conversation piece.

take care,

dave

 

[rickystl]

Hi Dave!
Thanks for the information. That frizzen spring and mount for sure was done back in the period. The patina is an exact match. Must have broke the spring early in it's life.
I'm pretty sure now a little oil and 0000 will bring out the script. But everything is so tiny, I need to take the lock apart to work on the plate. I'll report back with a photo. Should be a fun mystery to pursue. :haha: Thanks. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

It looks like the pan is two pieces, upper and lower.
Was that common construction with locks of that quality? (Or even slightly lower quality) I've never seen it before.

 

[pargent]

You are looking at a rain proof pan , the pan is the cone shaped thingy in the middle the other two parts you are seeing are the front and rear fences .

 

You are looking at a rain proof pan , the pan is the cone shaped thingy in the middle the other two parts you are seeing are the front and rear fences .

Look closer.
When viewed from the front, or outside of the lock, there is a distinct seam or joint not quite halfway between the top and bottom of the pan. When viewed from the inside of the lock, you can see a dovetail joint where the top of the pan is fitted into the lower section.

 

[pargent]

Ok Iam with you now , could have been made that way or a repair to a burnt out pan , another possibility although unlikely is that the lock was converted to percusion then back to flint, it's a hard job to explain with out having a photo but here goes some high end English makers converted buy removing the hammer instaling a dovetailed drum into the lock to line up with the touch hole, replaced the cock , that way the gun could be converted back with the original parts .This was done to a lot of dueling pistols .

 

[rickystl]

Hello again. Well, here's an update. Took the frizzen spring off. Really an unusual set up for mounting the frizzen spring. I also tried to get a better close-up of the pan area. Natural lighting was not the best today. Partial overcast here at the moment.
I've tried using oil and 0000 steel wool to remove some of the patina to see if I can read the name on the lock plate. But it still hard to make out. And I don't have the knowledge/library to take a guess. Maybe one of you guys can make out the name? Otherwise, I'll have to keep working with the oil and steel wool. :haha:
Any guess at the name? Thanks, Rick. :hatsoff:
[/UR[URL=http://s743.photobucket.com/user/rickystl/media/Small%20Lock/DSC00465Medium_zpsd44b6503.jpg.html] L]

 

[Fernando Keilty]

Hello:

Actually, the spring mechanism in Frizen is to regulate the power of this, so that the rake (frizzen) more or less resistance opposed to its opening. I have some literature on the subject, but I have to look.

Sincerely, Fernando K

 

[Fernando Keilty]

Horizontal screw function, is "set screw", the vertical screw, once the power has been regulated spring.

Sincerely, Fernando K