Early European Flintlock Pistol

[rickystl]

Hello ALL. Happy Valentines Day.

Here is a pistol from my collection. It's not been abused, but well used. I believe this pistol pre-dates 1750. Some interesting features:

. The only marking on the gun is a #2 on the rear, top flat at the breech. Likely, originally made as a pair, with #1 now missing.
. All silver mounted. Probably a custom consignment for an officer. Note the octagon ramrod thimbles.
. The lock looks Germanic to me. Note the tail of the lock plate has three indentations. No frizzen to pan arm. No markings on the lock inside or out.

Based on the lock and thumb piece, I thinking this pistol may be of Dutch origin (?) But I'm not sure. What do you guys think ?

Gone picture heavy here to help things out a bit.

Rick

 

[TobJohn]

That is a VERY classy looking pistol!

 

[rickystl]

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Did you ever pull the barrel to look for proofs?

 

[rickystl]

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[rickystl]

LAST ONES....

 

[TFoley]

To my eyes the whole this is amazingly crudely made. I'm less convinced every time I look at it, with what appear to be crudely-cast components. Where are the threads on the screw that hold the top of the flint clamp in place? How does the frizzen spring work? To me it looks like one piece with the lock-plate.

 

[Penske]

Rich
I think more german than dutch. have you dismounted the barrel or lock to check for markings?

 

[Penske]

TFoley
The screw is on the inside of the plate and engages threads on the frizzen spring.

 

[rich pierce]

TFoley
The screw is on the inside of the plate and engages threads on the frizzen spring.

Exactly. Very common on Germanic and some low country locks.

 

[rickystl]

Rich
I think more german than dutch. have you dismounted the barrel or lock to check for markings?

Hi Penske

No, I have not taken the barrel off. Guess I should and check for any markings on the bottom. Germanic may be right. The lock says that more than anything else. I did remove the lock. No markings. I recall reading somewhere that officers would request that the builder leave their custom consignment pistols unmarked - and therefor untraceable. I've seen other horse pistols of similar quality without markings.

Thanks for everyone's replies so far. This pistol does appear to have seen a lot of action.

Rick

 

[TFoley]

Sorry, I just do not see how the frizzen spring actually springs.

 

[Loyer]

The top arm springs like any other flint pistol. The bottom arm is retained by an inter screw (under that cylinder) and a small tab (not visible).

Looks similar to a Saxon Horse pistol I own .

 

[cyten]

I have a contact with a researcher at the Dutch Army museum, ill try to run these pics by him to see what he says.

 

[PathfinderNC]

To my eyes the whole this is amazingly crudely made. I'm less convinced every time I look at it, with what appear to be crudely-cast components. Where are the threads on the screw that hold the top of the flint clamp in place? How does the frizzen spring work? To me it looks like one piece with the lock-plate.

It’s a very cool old pistol but there are a few things that I wonder about also; There are no threads on the hammer jaw screw- not even a hint of them. Also, looking down at it you can clearly see that the frizzen isn’t nearly flush with the barrel and there is a very large space between the frizzen cover and the barrel. I can’t imagine this would be an acceptable fitting in its day. Also the frizzen face is completely smooth, as in unused. What’s more is that the toe on the frizzen doesn’t appear to be touching the feather spring. Maybe this frizzen was a poorly fit replacement?
What’s the country or region of origin?

 

[TFoley]

It’s a very cool old pistol but there are a few things that I wonder about also; There are no threads on the hammer jaw screw- not even a hint of them. Also, looking down at it you can clearly see that the frizzen isn’t nearly flush with the barrel and there is a very large space between the frizzen cover and the barrel. I can’t imagine this would be an acceptable fitting in its day. Also the frizzen face is completely smooth, as in unused. What’s more is that the toe on the frizzen doesn’t appear to be touching the feather spring. Maybe this frizzen was a poorly fit replacement?
What’s the country or region of origin?

No U-turn here, Sir. I mentioned the lack of threads and general crudeness. I bleeve it to be a frawk. I've handled dozens of the real deal - mid-18th century horse pistols and similar - all of them were better-made than this item. This is French....with some excellent threads on the jaw......

Bottom looks a frawk to me. Even the cock is mis-sized - I've never seen one that is too big for the lock, as this one is - take look at the example.

 

[rickystl]

One of the reasons I posted this pistol here is to, well, see what all you think. LOL I've long thought that the top jaw and screw are later replacements using original parts from some other gun. And the frizzen being a later day replacement and artificially aged. So, Ya'll seem to be confirming my observations. Glad I went picture heavy on this Thread. I traded a new condition Mirouku Jap Tower pistol for this one. So even with the misplaced parts, I think I got the better of the deal. Thanks again for all your input.

Rick

 

[Relic shooter]

It’s a very cool old pistol but there are a few things that I wonder about also; There are no threads on the hammer jaw screw- not even a hint of them. Also, looking down at it you can clearly see that the frizzen isn’t nearly flush with the barrel and there is a very large space between the frizzen cover and the barrel. I can’t imagine this would be an acceptable fitting in its day. Also the frizzen face is completely smooth, as in unused. What’s more is that the toe on the frizzen doesn’t appear to be touching the feather spring. Maybe this frizzen was a poorly fit replacement?
What’s the country or region of origin?

GOOD EYE PathfinderNC !
Could be that corrosion has eaten away some of the threads or there is just a short threaded section ?
I've observed numerous oddities in antique firearms over my past 60 years, poor storage conditions over 200+ years can cause
many changes in fit & wear to wood & steel.
As for lack of frizzen face wear, could be this pistol wasn't fired much ?
Relic shooter