Lock and Breach Plug Alinement

[Travis68]

Hello fellow gun builders need some advice on my TOTF Hawken build. When i started assembling the hardware on my rifle everything was coming together perfect until i dropped the hammer down on the cap nipple. I evidently in my in my hast i didn't check the alinement of my lock and breach plug. Im about a 10th off from being centered. Attached are picks of my rifle and rookie mistakes.

 

[64Springer]

Push your tang back until everything lines up.

Looks like modifying the tang/lock plate interface may be required.

Of course, moving the barrel back will require moving the wedge tenons.

I guess stretching the hammer is a possibility.

You could also remove the hammer cup. This would allow a flat face to strike the nipple. Don't laugh. I've had to do it on some Spanish pieces.

 

[billraby]

I think the easiest thing to do is to stretch the hammer.

 

[Scota@4570]

It is not your mistake. The breech is in the recess provided in the lock plate. You are painted into a corner.

You can not move the tang back. One the recess in the lock plate will be wrong if you do. Also the tang is wasp waisted. If you move it back you will make gaps around the tang.

Hawken's are hard. Seeing this stuff ahead of time is not easy. Did the hammer fit with the lock plate out of the stock with the plate situated in the bolster recess? No? There is a big problem right there. Then you had a precarve stock. The options are limited.

Ask whoever sold you the parts set for their advice. I think the only option is to modify the hammer. I like a little tip and an oxy acetylene torch. With that you can localize the heat and bend exact places on the hammer.

The thing to do is to get your stock with no lock inletting. Inlet the barrel and tang. Then figure where the hammer needs to pivot. Inlet the lock plate according to that. Then cut the recess in the plate for the plug bolster. This is why precarves are sometimes just firewood. It could have been worse, your parts appear to be usable.

On my Hawken build I got two junk precarves in a row. I sent the first one back. The second one appeared to be OK at first. IT was not. IN the process I ruined my lock plate and hammer. I regrouped and made my stock from a plank. That worked just fine. I will never build from an ordinary precarve again.

 

[IanH]

Yep, Scot explained it well. You're boxed into a corner by the fit of the parts an it all fits okay except the hammer bit looks like it will take more than bending, it will need stretching which is more of a blacksmithing maneuver than a simple tweak. I'd make a phone call to the kit company and see what fixes they propose.

 

[Travis68]

Thanks guys I’ll probably do both, carve a stock out of a blank and have a local blacksmith hep me if he can. I mis-measured milling my lock so I had to buy another so I have a spare hammer to mess with.

 

[Herb]

Clamp the hammer solidly in a vise. Heat the inside of the bend red-white with an acetylene torch. Propane is not hot enough, Mapp gas may do it. Lift the nose with a 9/16" box wrench. You can also enlarge the hammer cup front side to clear the nipple. You should be able to correct it. Also the nipple looks too tall. A shorter one will allow more hammer fall. Was that a notched lock plate or did you cut the snail notch? That is a rough looking snail. The tang and barrel should sit deeper in the stock, until the tang is flush with the wood. You may need to bend the tail of the tang up to match the wrist. It can be bent cold, easy to do.

 

[Norman Brooks]

What Herb said. Sink the tang and barrel into the stock. Not the whole barrel, just the breech end tapered to the nose cap. You will have to do some fancy work with the key also to make it work. Hawken's are a pain in the butt for beginners to build.

 

[rich pierce]

Excellent advice above. Also consider just getting a percussion hammer with a longer throw. I think the problem won’t be solved by bending the nose as it will strike the nipple at a bad angle.

Some blacksmiths are not used to doing fine work of this type. Stretching could work but by the time things are cleaned up the hammer “neck” will be thin. It has to be done with frequent checking for fit.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

It is not your mistake. The breech is in the recess provided in the lock plate. You are painted into a corner.

You can not move the tang back. One the recess in the lock plate will be wrong if you do. Also the tang is wasp waisted. If you move it back you will make gaps around the tang.

Hawken's are hard. Seeing this stuff ahead of time is not easy. Did the hammer fit with the lock plate out of the stock with the plate situated in the bolster recess? No? There is a big problem right there. Then you had a precarve stock. The options are limited.

Ask whoever sold you the parts set for their advice. I think the only option is to modify the hammer. I like a little tip and an oxy acetylene torch. With that you can localize the heat and bend exact places on the hammer.

The thing to do is to get your stock with no lock inletting. Inlet the barrel and tang. Then figure where the hammer needs to pivot. Inlet the lock plate according to that. Then cut the recess in the plate for the plug bolster. This is why precarves are sometimes just firewood. It could have been worse, your parts appear to be usable.

On my Hawken build I got two junk precarves in a row. I sent the first one back. The second one appeared to be OK at first. IT was not. IN the process I ruined my lock plate and hammer. I regrouped and made my stock from a plank. That worked just fine. I will never build from an ordinary precarve again.

I want to say more than hit the "Like" reply button. Well said, I mean well said! This will help the OP realize HE is not the one responsible for the poor alignment.
Larry

 

[reddogge]

Just looking at it another thing you may want to try is to fill the hole in the hammer with a plug silver soldered in and then redrill and recut another hole moving the hammer forward that 1/8". The fix would be hidden.

 

[SDSmlf]

Is the barrel all the way down in the stock? Or is the undercut in the tang and bottom of the snail riding on top of the lock, raising the barrel in the stock? How does the barrel and tang sit in the stock with the lock removed from the stock?

 

[Scota@4570]

Good catch.

The hooked breech has a gap too, that needs to be fixed. IF he can set the barrel back a hair and drop it down that maybe really close. The lock plate will need to have the bolster recess deepened and moved back. Super glue the hooked breech together once it is fitted right. Then check the fit.

IT may help to take the lock apart. Then put the hammer where it should have pivoted on the stripped plate. That will help visualize what needs to be changed. Like most fitting and building jobs try to work on one piece of the puzzle at a time.

Be really careful with the tang inletting. The standing breech face is sloping toward the rear. The back edge of the tang is angled toward the front. That is why once it is in you can not move it back and forth much. Mostly is can only go down.

 

[Travis68]

Thanks for the advice guys. I would like to buy a taller hammer that would fix the problem or even moving the hammer hole isn’t out of the question either. The rifle is loosely put together so I can visually show everyone my issues. The rifle is all together, wood to metal fit is decent and I think I’m ready for my first sanding of the stock. I haven’t done any research on taller hammers. Does anybody know anything about that?

 

[SDSmlf]

The rifle is all together, wood to metal fit is decent and I think I’m ready for my first sanding of the stock.

As I mentioned in post #12 above, the tang and the breech end of the barrel appears to be proud of the stock, at least to me. If I am correct about that, I would suggest rectifying that before removing any wood. That hammer may get close to lining up with nipple if you can lower it a bit. Couple that with the shorter nipple suggested by @Herb and everything could fall into place with the hammer you have now.

 

[Travis68]

Thank all of your advice I really appreciate it. The pictures of my project is loosely put together to show where my problem were. My wood to metal fit is descent and am happy with the build except for the lock hammer and breach plug. I have a nice Hawken blank and will more than likely use the hardware for a scratch build. Does anyone know anything on taller hammers?

 

[Travis68]

 

[Travis68]

This is a picture of my first build. It is a Track Of The Wolf JP back style Pennsylvanian long rifle. It’s not perfect but it’s amazingly accurate and I’m very proud of it.

 

[Travis68]

The stock is carved out of a slab of cherry that I milled off of our farm in Raymore Missouri.

 

[Travis68]

I took the TOTW stock and used it as a pattern to carve my own JP Beck stock it turned out pretty good if I do say so myself.