Load help

[newarcher]

Hi all,

I have a high plains sporter that I was given, really cool. I was plugging and fouling it up with 60 grains of Triple 7, so I bought some GOEX real BP.

I have a friend that works for Bass Pro who brought me home some fff Goex for rifles. They also gave me some ff for pistol calibers they had left over.

So my questions:

1) can I use the ff in my rifle and if so how much would equate to 60 grains of triple 7?

2) How much fff goex should I use to equate to the 60 grains of triple 7.

Taking my lad out in the AM to go make some smoke happen. I want to get the *scope* dialed in and the load worked out so that I can have it ready for hunting season.

Thanks all!

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have a friend that works for Bass Pro who brought me home some fff Goex for rifles. They also gave me some ff for pistol calibers they had left over.

Really, no such thing as pistol or rifle granulations. Either will work fine in your rifle. Start with moderate charges and enjoy.

 

[Zonie]

You can use either 2Fg or 3Fg real black powder in your gun.
The 3Fg powder will produce velocities that are about 10 percent higher than an equal load of 2Fg powder will produce.

Hodgdon's triple 7 powder is roughly 15 percent more powerful than 3Fg black powder.

Using this number if you are loading 3Fg black powder your 60 grain triple seven load would be about 70 grains.

If you are loading 2Fg black powder you would need about 77 grains of powder.

As a side note, as you know, each muzzleloader will have a 'favorite' load where it produces the best accuracy.

With this in mind you might want to start out either of your real black powder loads at 60 grains and see what happens.
It may surprise you and produce much tighter groups even though the velocity is slightly lower.

 

[Glenfilthie]

I would recommend the Black Powder Bible by whatisname...Sam Fadalalalalala or something. He goes through the basics of black powder and did the best job of explaining twist rates that I have ever seen.

I refuse to use black powder substitutes. I don't care how clean, how non corrosive and how convenient they are...it just isn't the same as good ol' black.

 

[newarcher]

Thanks fellahs, I'll have my son with me along with my soon to be nephew in law (marrying my sister's daughter). I may load up about 60 for my son so he's not scared of the gun. May load up 400 for my nephew in law and use 3 balls! No, not really.

Thanks, I'll report back.

New

 

[mdbeck1]

From my experience....

I teach quite a few kids (Boy Scout Camp) and we generally use 50 grains of FF Triple 7 for the kids and first time shooters (using round ball).

For more "experienced" shooters we've been known to run up to 100 grains.

 

[newarcher]

Welp, I am back....the real black powder stunk like a rotten fart but worked great.

I'm still having issues though.

First shot, perfect...no issues. I used a thinner patch and the 50 cal ball went in no problem. The second shot stuck in the barrel about 3-4" in and it was like I hit a wall. It took two grown men to pull that ball back out of the barrel.

So for the rest of the day I shot the gun without the patch at all. No issues after that except the barrel got really scratchy feeling when I loaded the ball in....fouling and powder buildup. So I am no closer to having the gun sighted in for deer season.

How do you guys suppose I work it (being as this is a closed, hooked breach) so that I can have faith in adjusting the scope after the first couple shots? How should I clean it at the range?

New

 

[Zonie]

As you found, black powder does produce a lot of fouling.

If you use a watery patch lube like Stumpkillers Moose Juice, the lube will soften the fouling as the ball is rammed.
The Moose Juice can be carried in a little plastic squeeze bottle when your in the field hunting and the tiny amount of the main powder charge that is wetted by it won't have much effect on the velocity of the shot. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/.../1003104/hl/Moose+Juice/fromsearch/1/#1003104

The next time you get a patched ball stuck just dribble a little water (or Moose Juice) down the bore and count to 20. That will give the water time to soak into the patch.
This will soften the fouling and allow the ball to be easily pulled or rammed on down to the powder load.

 

[StewartLeach]

Welcome to the joys of loud noises, bad smells and dirty hands! What more could a guy want?

Several suggestions come to mind. First, if you haven't done so, break in the barrel by firing at least 100 rounds. Most barrels will foul less after firing enough to smooth 'em out.

You need to use a patch that is thick enough to fill the bore and rifling to provide some sealing and cleaning as it is loaded. You also need to lubricate the patch with saliva, some sort of "Moose Milk", or a patch grease. The patch and ball combo should require a smart thump on the short starter to start them down the barrel. If they start easily, your patch is probably too thin, if they require a real whack that hurts your hand, too thick. Experiment.

I use spit or Moose Milk in competitions, as I know I will be firing the load soon. I wet the patch or strip of material in my mouth while fishing for the ball in my pouch. If using Moose Milk, it is carried and applied with a repurposed Vitalis Hair Spray squirter. One good push on the pump at a range of about 3 inches from the patch does it. Moose Milk recipe is 2 ounces Ballistol, 2 ounces Murphy's Oil soap, and enough tap water to fill a liter pop bottle. Measure the oil and soap, don't guess. This is enough for a busy April-October season. This stuff is a good field cleaner.

There are many greases available in stores and catalogs, as well as recipes for homebrews. The point is you need to lubricate the patches.

You may also find your rifle just likes to be cleaned every few shots. My 58 cal Renegade insists on both sides of a MM dampened patch followed by both sides of a dry patch every 10-12 rounds. Another rifle is quite the opposite- shoots better dirty, in fact, doesn't shoot well until about the third round. The test for me is that if it gets hard to push the patched ball home, or it goes down with a herky-jerky progress of more and less resistance, then it's time for a bit of scrubbing.

Have fun, make smoke, and favor center,

White Fox, in The People's Republic Of Boulder

 

[paulvallandigham]

There is a reason that target shooters clean their bores after each shot fired. 40% of the volume of powder fired remains in the barrel as carbon fouling(soot).

By cleaning the bore after every shot, you return the barrel to the same condition it was in when you loaded and fired the first shot. If you use that scope sight and shoot the gun off a steady bench rest, you will see the difference.

If you are planning to hunt with the gun, you should be expecting to only get ONE SHOT at any deer with any muzzleloader. For that reason, you want the sights set up to "ZERO" that first shot for you, every time. And, doesn't it stand to reason that you want to do what is necessary to have subsequent shots strike the same POA as your first shot?

I found recently that if I greased my bore with a combination of wax and oil, that the fouling remained softer, and was easier to remove with a lightly dampened cleaning patch after each shot. I use the same patch lube for the patch that wraps around the ball, and after 3-4 shots, I notice that running the ball down the barrel gets easier, w/o any effect on accuracy, or size of my groups.

When I wipe the bore after my shot with a lightly dampened cleaning patch( wipe one side of it on your tongue, then fold it in half and rub the two parts together to force the spit into the weave)I follow with no less than ONE DRY cleaning patch. Cleaning patches are 3" squares of flannel 100% cotton, BTW. The cleaning patch fabric is much thinner than the mattress ticking cotton patches I use to hold the ball. DO NOT CONFUSE THE TWO, NOR ATTEMPT TO USE ONE FOR BOTH PURPOSES.

I will use more than one dry patch if the prior patch comes out of the barrel looking black and (wet)slick! ALWAYS READ YOUR PATCHES! They tell you what the conditions are inside your barrel. Conditions change with changes in weather conditions, including temperature, and relative humidity. Black Powder actually burns better with a bit of humidity: Too much humidity, however is "too much of a good thing" and causes problems. A gun left uncleaned after a shot will develop a caked-on residue in the bore that takes more water( or moose milk) in your patch to break it free.

You have lots to learn, so keep shooting, and keep asking questions here. :thumbsup: :hatsoff: