Jeremiah Johnson Hawken

[Herb]

Notchy Bob, that is a good picture of the rifle. Thanks for posting it. Where did you find it?

 

[Griz44Mag]

Notchy Bob, that is a good picture of the rifle. Thanks for posting it. Where did you find it?

Same picture I posted a year or so ago - some time back - along with the only know actual photo of the man and an article about him.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/jerimiah-johnson.112223/page-2#post-1526697

Image is courtesy of Buffalo Bill Center of the West, Cody, WY, USA; Gift of F.W. Roebling III
Field and Stream Magazine
A Blast from the Past: "Jeremiah Johnson's" Hawken
BY PHIL BOURJAILY AUGUST 25, 2017

https://www.fieldandstream.com/blast-from-past-jeremiah-johnsons-hawken/

 

[Notchy Bob]

Notchy Bob, that is a good picture of the rifle. Thanks for posting it. Where did you find it?

I'm pretty sure I grabbed that photo of the rifle, knife, and beaver pelt en suite from the "Real World Survivor" website ( https://www.realworldsurvivor.com/2016/01/25/frontier-legend-john-johnston/ ). That is definitely where I found the detail picture of the knife. The photo at the top of the article in the link is part of a slideshow with images of the rifle and knife, the knife and sheath, and their rather scruffy-looking former owner.

However, I think that particular photograph of the rifle, knife, and beaver pelt, may have originated with the Buffalo Bill Center of the West. There was an article about Liver Eating Johnson in the Billings Gazette online ( https://www.greatfallstribune.com/s...ating-johnson-keeps-getting-taller/657762001/) that featured the same photo, and they credited the Buffalo Bill Center. I have not followed up on that yet, but I am cursed with an inquisitive nature and will probably attempt to track the image to its source when time permits.

I had picked up that photograph quite a while back, but researched it again yesterday with a Google search. I used "liver eating johnson hawken" as a search term. If you do a search like that, right below the toolbar at the top of the screen you'll see a menu. Click "Images" and it will light up a page full of thumbnail photos with web links attached. My search yesterday turned up a lot of interesting material. There was a biography of Johnston/Johnson that I did not know about, entitled The Never-Ending Lives of Liver-Eating Johnson. There are more details and a lengthy excerpt on Google Books ( https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Never_Ending_Lives_of_Liver_Eating_J.html?id=VbePDwAAQBAJ ). I also found that Nathan Bender authored an article in The Journal of Arms and Armour (Volume 3, 2006 - Issue 2), entitled "A Hawken rifle and Bowie knife of John 'Liver-Eating' Johnson." The article apparently compared the actual gun and knife to the ones described in Thorp & Bunker's book, Crow Killer. The full article is not readily available online, but you can access the abstract here: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1179/174962606X136874?journalCode=yaaa20

There was also a thread about Johnson's rifle on the ALR forum: https://americanlongrifles.org/foru...71c8d2606434c0f0666ff4ad2fe881b&topic=51452.0

I would like to take the opportunity to thank you and Phil Meek for sharing your expertise. You guys invest a lot of time in the posts submitted here and on the ALR forum, and the rest of us appreciate it.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Notchy Bob]

Looks like Grizz44mag and I were typing at the same time, and he finished before I did.

The link he provides will take you to a very long thread concerning "Jeremiah Johnson" on this forum.

Thanks for your comments, Grizz!

Notchy Bob

 

[Griz44Mag]

I have\had a special interest in that area. I had an uncle (now deceased) that was named Cody after the town. Some of that branch of the family still lives in the area. Health permitting, I would like to go to the museum again someday, it's a really special visit.

 

[Arrow139]

I'm pretty sure I grabbed that photo of the rifle, knife, and beaver pelt en suite from the "Real World Survivor" website ( Real World Survivor Is Now Part of BallisticMag.com's Survival Content ). That is definitely where I found the detail picture of the knife. The photo at the top of the article in the link is part of a slideshow with images of the rifle and knife, the knife and sheath, and their rather scruffy-looking former owner.

However, I think that particular photograph of the rifle, knife, and beaver pelt, may have originated with the Buffalo Bill Center of the West. There was an article about Liver Eating Johnson in the Billings Gazette online ( The legend of Liver-Eating Johnson keeps getting taller) that featured the same photo, and they credited the Buffalo Bill Center. I have not followed up on that yet, but I am cursed with an inquisitive nature and will probably attempt to track the image to its source when time permits.

I had picked up that photograph quite a while back, but researched it again yesterday with a Google search. I used "liver eating johnson hawken" as a search term. If you do a search like that, right below the toolbar at the top of the screen you'll see a menu. Click "Images" and it will light up a page full of thumbnail photos with web links attached. My search yesterday turned up a lot of interesting material. There was a biography of Johnston/Johnson that I did not know about, entitled The Never-Ending Lives of Liver-Eating Johnson. There are more details and a lengthy excerpt on Google Books ( The Never-Ending Lives of Liver-Eating Johnson ). I also found that Nathan Bender authored an article in The Journal of Arms and Armour (Volume 3, 2006 - Issue 2), entitled "A Hawken rifle and Bowie knife of John 'Liver-Eating' Johnson." The article apparently compared the actual gun and knife to the ones described in Thorp & Bunker's book, Crow Killer. The full article is not readily available online, but you can access the abstract here: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1179/174962606X136874?journalCode=yaaa20

There was also a thread about Johnson's rifle on the ALR forum: https://americanlongrifles.org/foru...71c8d2606434c0f0666ff4ad2fe881b&topic=51452.0

I would like to take the opportunity to thank you and Phil Meek for sharing your expertise. You guys invest a lot of time in the posts submitted here and on the ALR forum, and the rest of us appreciate it.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

Yes, that image of Liver Eating Johnson knife and rifle is from the Buffalo Bill Center of the West. I used it in my article that you cited on his Hawken rifle and knife. Nathan Bender

 

[52Bore]

 

[Notchy Bob]

View attachment 84196

I see a photo of a couple of worthy gentlemen holding a late S. Hawken-style rifle, but I can't identify any of them, and I don't know the significance of the photo. Please tell us more!

Thanks!

Notchy Bob

 

[52Bore]

Notchy Bob:
Greg Roberts and Art Ressel holding Art’s 1st Hawken rifle after aquiring the original Hawken tooling. Apparently at one time Art owned many originals, it’s interesting to hear them talk. Jeremiah J. was just one topic we discussed during my visit with them.

 

[BS]

Notchy Bob:
Greg Roberts and Art Ressel holding Art’s 1st Hawken rifle after aquiring the original Hawken tooling. Apparently at one time Art owned many originals, it’s interesting to hear them talk. Jeremiah J. was just one topic we discussed during my visit with them.

Can you explain more about the "Hawken Tooling"?

 

[52Bore]

BS:
From The Hawken Shop website.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Notchy Bob:
Greg Roberts and Art Ressel holding Art’s 1st Hawken rifle after aquiring the original Hawken tooling. Apparently at one time Art owned many originals, it’s interesting to hear them talk. Jeremiah J. was just one topic we discussed during my visit with them.

Thanks for the explanation! I've heard of Art Ressell (he's legendary...) but I don't think I've ever seen a picture of him.

I think the original Hawken rifling bench resides with the Missouri Historical Society, but I did hear about Mr. Ressell obtaining a lot of the other original Hawken tools and materials. You don't hear a lot about the rifles built from Hawken Shoppe kits, but I understand that they are very highly regarded by the experts.

Notchy Bob

 

[BS]

52Bore, Thank You!

 

[The Hawken Shop®]

Thank you all for the kind words.
We are striving to keep the Hawken legacy alive and are doing so through the Classic Plains Rifle. The Hawken Shop is an important part of American history and must live on!

 

[rickystl]

Notchy Bob:
Greg Roberts and Art Ressel holding Art’s 1st Hawken rifle after aquiring the original Hawken tooling. Apparently at one time Art owned many originals, it’s interesting to hear them talk. Jeremiah J. was just one topic we discussed during my visit with them.

I remember Art letting me hold two of his originals from his collection wayyyyy back in the 1970's when his Hawken Shop was located in St. Louis. Thanks for the memories!!

Rick

 

[brazosland]

Thank you all for the kind words.
We are striving to keep the Hawken legacy alive and are doing so through the Classic Plains Rifle. The Hawken Shop is an important part of American history and must live on!

Glad you all are here on the forum.

 

[Bighorserider]

I was lucky enough to stop be the Hawkin shop in St Louis while Art owned it. He wasn't there, but the guy who was let me go in the back and look at his collection of originals that was shown in their old catalog. I picked up a few of them. It's also where I got the iron parts to make my TC look a little more Hawkin like. It still has the brass patch box though.

 

[azsixshooter]

I just finished a Lyman GPR flintlock in .54 cal about 2 weeks ago and today got to shoot her in the Michigan State Muzzleloading Association Championship novice program! I'm new to traditional muzzleloaders and I was so excited to have this experience today, especially with a Hawken! The cherry on top was my 10 yr old daughter went with me and had fun and she wants to go back tomorrow morning. Might be time to start building her a Hawken too! Thanks for all the great pictures and history on these wonderful arms. It is because of good people like you that new shooters like me are able to enjoy all of this fun!

 

[SSBN617b]

Folks,
thanks for all your posts. As a Nubie this is all too good.
Thanks
Mitch

 

[George]

This might be of some interest to the Hawken fans:

Article regarding a (scientific) inspection of the rifling machine from the original Hawken Shop in St. Louis which ended up in the possession of the Missouri Historic Society.
Bulletin #7 (Spring 1963) from the American Society of Arms Collectors, "ST. LOUIS GUNS, THE MECHANICS OF MANUFACTURE AND POINTS OF IDENTIFICATION", by Dr. Byrne and Clarence B. Fall – NFI)

"We found this rig complete and in fine condition although it shows much use. It is typical in design except much more metal was used.
"It is approximately 10 feet long.
"The threaded feed screw is metal with male threads, right twist. It can’t make a left-twist groove.
"The indexor will permit a 7 land and groove cut.
"The cutter mounted in the wood bore fitting plug has a slight curvature to produce rounded bottom grooves."

(The author notes – from slugging original barrels - “All observed Hawken long guns have 7 lands and grooves with the grooves having a noticeable rounded bottom or curvature. They are all right twist. Approximately one turn in 48.”)

("The J. and S. Hawken or S. Hawken stamped with a unit die in bold letters. The St. Louis stamped with separate die in very similar letters, The marks read from breech to muzzle on all observed genuine guns.”….”Interestingly, Dimmick, another famed St. Louis Maker, used a 7-land left twist. He also signed the barrels muzzle to breech.”)

Spence