Japanese reproduction flintlock identification

[mrremington]

Hello I have a smooth bore flintlock stamped Japan on the barrel. It is octagon to round barrel brass furniture and a lock with USA and a eagle on it. It is quite crude not the nicest of flintlocks. It looks like a kit reproduction. Has anyone seen one of these. I can't seem to find any information on it any where. Thanks mr Remington

 

[MacRob46]

Are you talking about a rifle or a pistol? You need to provide a bit more information.

Perhaps 35 or more years ago, there were some Japanese-made kits on the market. My wife actually gave me a flintlock pistol kit she got at a discount store and, after looking it over, we took it back for a refund. The components were very crude and the inletting on the stock was terrible. It would have been too much work to assemble and finish it with the final result being less than desireable no matter how carefully it was done. I have not seen one lately but I suspect that is what you are talking about. I do not remember the brand name only that it was made in Japan.

 

[mrremington]

Yes sorry it's a musket 32 inch barrel. After removing the charge in the barrel I removed the lock it was so full of hardened grease. I put a flint in the jaws. The geometry is way off on the lock It certainly is a poor quality gun.

 

[Alden]

hotoSmile:

 

[mrremington]

Pictures of japanise flintlock

 

[bpd303]

Looks like an Ultra-Hi Minute Man sold by Dixie Gun Works in the 60s. You need to check it very carefully because some of those muskets had two piece barrels that screwed together at the transition from octagon to round and a tack welded breech plug. Run a tight fitting patch down the barrel and if you feel any resistance at the area where the barrel may have been screwed together, I would recommend hanging it on the wall and not shooting it.

 

[mrremington]

I actually have a buyer Lind up. They want it for a Xmas present for there mother to do exactly that hang it on the mantle. Thanks for your reply

 

[bpd303]

Just advise them about the possible problems.
Not long ago I bought one very similar to yours except mine has a working patch box. Here is a link to the info I got on it. I wouldn't have shot it if it hadn't passed the proof test. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/279697/post/1276148/hl//fromsearch/1/

 

[mrremington]

I guess there is lots of info on the rifle just didn't do the proper search. The previous owner wAs trying to fire it luckily he had no luck. When I cleared the charge out of the barrel I could feel the join in the barrel with the end of the ram rod. Pure junk IMO And they are buying for a wall hanger.

 

[bpd303]

Yep the missing frizzen spring probably saved him a trip to the ER or worse.

 

[Alden]

That's a terrible repro of a Hawken...

:grin:

 

[bpd303]

LOL and I bet it was packed with grits. :haha:

 

[mrremington]

I removed a tissue paper wad then the powder and a j cloth at the breach. No wonder it would not fire lol

 

[mrremington]

And the winner of the most hidious flintlock goes to... Lol

 

[Alden]

LOL Close to it it seems. I'd rather eat what WAS stuffed down the barrel...

I think this gun should be restored with expert-made parts and donated to The Museum of the Fur Trade whose existence, and the fact that I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express when I visited it, make me an expert at typing others' criticisms.

Those darn T/C Hawkins look NOTHING like this undiscovered-until-now, original rifle made (I have it on good authority from an internet expert) by Jacob's and Samuel's lesser-known much younger brother Hiroshi Hawken.

 

[kingsax26]

interestingly enough....I found one of those at agrage store about 2 years ago....i think i paid the guy 5 $ for it as it was the screwed barrel and it had come apart somehow......I hung it on the wall in the living room....and every person who saw it always commented on how awful it looked...I eventually pulled it down ...filled the breech with jb weld....and made it into a toy flint lock for my buddies kid...thats was the ugliest gun but the coolest toy to a 8 year old who didnt know anybetter....best 5$ ive ever spent

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I ran a sporting goods store in the early 1970's, and they sold both muskets and pistols of those screwed together two piece barrel models. One good thing is that the frizzens were soft steel and most likely would not spark. A buddy at another store convinced the store chain to send them back and recall as many as possible. Two brothers were killed outside of Phila, PA trying to ignite one with a cigarette because it wouldn't go off. As i recall, when they came in, the chain ran a special on them for $69.99. (A new Tc Hawken kit was $119 back then). The stocks looked like they were made from pine. (IIRC the importer was up in Vermont)

I cringe every time I see or hear of one on-line.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Let me add, I don't think Ultra High or Dixie ever sold anything quite that bad in quality.

 

[Toomuch51]

What you have was an offering imported by "Ultra-Hi" in the late '60s to mid '70s (called a 69 cal. "Minuteman Rifle". They are admittedly very crude and not esthetic at all, neither are they a rifle but a smooth bore, or 69 cal. but 67cal. The barrel is of two piece construction with the jointure at the end of the octagon octagon.
That being said I have been using one for nearly 30 years now for both hunting and competition. Also about 20 years ago I acquired another still in kit form and built this for my wife who also uses her's for hunting and competition.
The two we have work particularly well with a charge of 70gr. of 3f under a .648 patched ball (.017 ticking) or .662 bare ball,and using the same charge with 1 1/8 oz. of lead shot over 1/2" felt wad.
They do require a good bit of finess and dedication, but the reward can be equally as rewarding.

Toomuch
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Shoot Flint

 

[Toomuch51]

Let me add, I don't think Ultra High or Dixie ever sold anything quite that bad in quality.

I agree, the quality was not that bad for what it was, which is the equivalent of a builder's kit. They did take more than minimal skill to put together and tune. But once properly tuned they did offer many fine rewards.

Toomuch
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Shoot Flint