Jaeger Shooters

[Stophel]

Here are some old guns. www.photobucket.com/albums/v326/Fatdutchman/Original Flintlocks/SpanishStyle
www.photobucket.com/albums/v326/Fatdutchman/Original Flintlocks/GermanRifle
www.photobucket.com/albums/v326/Fatdutchman/Original Flintlocks/GermanFowler

The first gun is mine. A super light smoothbore gun about .50 caliber. Early 18th century, say, 1720. The only thing I have that is still original flint. Although this gun is well used, it was not abused. It has a wonderfully original wood surface, which is a great thing for a gunmaker to see. All the beautiful scraper marks. :wink:

The second gun is a rifle from about 1760. Super neat hardware. The conversion was done in Germany. When this gun was "found", it was completely covered in black paint!

The last gun is a ca. 1760 bird gun that is currently not in the greatest state (an unfortunate condition for a great many old guns). It has a bayonet trap in the buttplate (wish I had the bayonet...and the forward two feet of barrel, which were cut off...), which was a minor fad in the 18th century. It was per-cussed in Germany. When I got it, it was badly "reconverted" with Siler parts. I have begun a more proper reconversion, but it is way on the back burner now. I got the gun cut down, with an underrib screwed to the bottom of the barrel. I don't know if this little bit of engineering was done in Germany or America.

These are all nice, but still "average grade" guns. None would be considered "royal quality", though the last bird gun would come closest. I have photos of another gun that is obviously made by the same maker as this one. It is a full stock gun, that I believe is straight rifled. The lock is from Liege, and is probably a mass produced commercial lock bought by the stocker, as would likely be the engraved brass hardware. It's in nicer shape than my gun...

I also have a ca. 1830 German rifle with a 16" barrel, that I don't have up on my photo album. I'll have to put that one up. :wink:

 

[cal.43]

At that time in europe was absolutism with the three booth system with the clergy , the nobility , commoner outside the system stand peon,maid etc. the first two stands owned most of the country and were wasting there time with hunting and collecting fine goods like guns. No sovereign would ever like to see there subjects owning weapons.
Since the "Thirty Years' War" till the WWII was no war that destroyed many château or manor-houses.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Thanks for the photos Chris. That Spanish style gun is a beauty. It would have been made in Germany--right? It has a good bit of cast off doesn't it? Looks about right for me. About how much does it weigh? I've been thinking about a light rifle for short backpacking treks and something like this might work.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Yes, WWII levelled the playing field a bit--along with an awful lot of Europe.

 

[Stophel]

It has a lot of cast off, which is common, and necessary. Some of the cast off is from warpage (very burly wood...stump cut). It handles beautifully. Weighs like six pounds! The lock is marked inside "SVLA" for the town of Suhl. The gun could be from there, or just the lock. Locks and often hardware were mass produced. The Spanish style was very popular. I have seen more German guns done in Spanish style than I have seen Spanish ones!

Though the barrel is completely brown now, it has traces of bright shiny temper blue on the bottom under the brass nosecap. The temper blue is quite fugitive, and I think probably a lot of guns with barrels finished bright were originally temper blued like this, but it just rubbed off.

German rifles are universally full stocked, while German smoothbores are usually half stocked. Fullstock smoothbores are generally a bit shorter, and might be considered "general purpose" shotguns, rather than dedicated bird guns. Apparently, these were often used (along with straight rifled guns...which were designated "Schrot Buechse"-"shot rifle") for boar hunting...or so I'm told.

 

[flm_shooter]

Here is mine:

This was the last gun my Dad made. He called it the 'Family Rifle'. The cheekpiece is our family crest. The edelweiss on the but is a brooch from my Mother's side of the family.

This one is a keeper.

 

[bingo1952]

I like that, it is very nice. :thumbsup:

 

[Stophel]

I did this one about a year ago. Your basic common North German style rifle.
www.photobucket.com/albums/v326/Fatdutchman/Flintlocks/Jaegerbuechse

 

[Bryanbrown]

The Wars of Spanish Succession, The War of Austrian Succession, Queen Annes War, 7 years war, Mayar Rebellions, The Whole series of Napoleonic Wars, The Unification wars that created Germany (not all the states were happy to join) , The Franco Prussian War, not to mention WW1 are all "minor skirmishes" in between the stated framework that rather impacted Europe as a whole.

Hunting arms and Schützenverein (shooting clubs) are VERY common in Central Europe back into the 1400's with Firearms and earlier with bows, crossbows etc. Hunting on the continent was allowed but the game was limited by class. The Stuttgarter SchützenGilde my old Gun club in Germany has been there since 1500 http://www.stuttgarter-schuetzengilde.de/

In the 16th-19th centuries the rise of the middle class combined with the lack of central European states make firearms ownership more common in the German States. In WW2 Hitler was the first German leader to institute universal Gun Control. Remember in the 16th-18th centuries there is NO Germany. It is the Holy Roman Empire, made up of (in 1778) 1118 independent states, landgravie, margravie, principalities, feudal fiefdoms, free cities making an armed populace an advantage to the Monarch. Not a risk to a centralized government such as in France and England. Where private ownership of weapons was negatively impacted by things like the War of the Roses, and the English Civil War.

Strict castes of Nobles, Clergy and Peasants was true in the Medieval period, but the rise of the Middle class beginning in the Renaissance rather changed this dynamic.

 

[Stophel]

Thank you! The several German states were often very different than the rest of Europe. Germany was not France, or even England. Each little state was more or less sovereign (though all were theoretically part of the Holy Roman Empire, seated at Vienna). Some were almost republican! Gun ownership seems to have been relatively common. In addition to hunting, target shooting was THE spectator sport of the day. It seems to have been enjoyed by all classes. Many cities/states even had citizen militias! The Reformation was the great changing power in Germany. Though clearly not perfect, it led to liberties not before seen in feudal or absolutist Europe (and they probably had more liberties than most in Europe have today...)

 

[Stophel]

One of my favorite period pictures. "The Bayerische Hiesel". Now, I still have no clue what this means. It's Bavarian...words, sounds, letter combinations that simply don't exist in Hochdeutsch. Anyway, the best I'm able to figure, it was sort of a Jesse James episode. A band of poachers were tracked down and arrested in 1772. In this picture, you see the soldiers rounding up the bad guys and loading them up on a sled. What's most interesting is the civilians standing around...some of them with their guns! I particularly like the two rather backwoods-looking fellows behind the sled, one leaning on the muzzle of his chest-high gun, the other with a long gun taller than him! (I know, it's hard to see.). There's also the man with the short rifle at the far right, speaking to one of the soldiers.

Also note that at least three of the buildings have thatched roofs!!!

By the way, if there is someone more versant in German, particularly Sueddeutsch, and can tell me more about the Hiesel, I would sure appreciate it!

 

[dallas10c]

If you can email me a bigger copy of the text I will have my mother translate it for you. She is from Gersthofen, just outside of Augsburg and should be able to translate it for you.

Bob

 

[Bryanbrown]

Stopfel

My Bayrische is pretty decent if you want to shoot me a larger image I can take a crack at it.

 

[Stophel]

I can read/speak Hochdeutsch (well, I speak 18th century Martin Luther Bible German), but not that well, and I'm out of practice. Bavarian is something else. Wierd sounds and letters. Guat, Buam, hiasl. I don't know. :hmm: I haven't actually looked at it in some time. I can get the basic gist of it...broadly, but I just don't read it well enough, and don't feel like sitting down with my dictionary (which still doesn't have those wierd Bavarian words!)! :grin:

I'll come up with a larger image.

 

[Doug Lykins]

One of my favorite period pictures. "The Bayerische Hiesel". Now, I still have no clue what this means.

My mother-in-law is German and my wife lived at Munich many years. Translation: simply "The Bavarian House". Bavaraians have their own dialect and "Hiesel" is a very slang word for house. The rest of it is too small to read.

 

[bucktales]

It ain't Munich.. or Munchen, but Minga to a real Bayern person. :hmm:

Wifey is from that neck of the woods. :haha:
(So are the Hounds!)

 

[cal.43]

don´t forget
"hinter Ulm beginnt der Balkan"
behind Ulm the Balkan starts
LOL

 

[THORNAPPLE]

I'm kinda late to this discussion. Let me submit a candidate for "Ugliest Jaeger" thus far. It is a Military/Thomas Pistor style, all steel, I built it in 85. It has it's second barrel, a straight oct. Getz .62 x 30" and likes 75 gr ff and .600 rb. Fun to shoot and has taken more deer than any other gun I've ever owned, and one 450lb. black bear.

Dropped this little 7 pt. last Nov. at 103 yds.

 

[Stophel]

Sorry, I've been preoccupied. I'll try tonight to get a larger image of the Hiesel pages.

 

[Stophel]

For your perusal, here's the entire text from the book from the Deutsches Jagdmuseum Muenchen. The pictures are as large and clear as I can get them.

I just simply cannot read German well enough to take a stab at such a large block of text. The general gist of it, as far as I can tell, is there was a sort of Jessie James folk hero with his merry band who were finally captured by soldiers.

By the way, the rifle shown at the end may have a lock and hardware that is early 18th century, but the stocking is late 18th c.
www.photobucket.com/albums/v326/Fatdutchman/Hiesel

:grin: