Inlay and decoration in the pre flintlock era

[TobJohn]

The second video I found had the guy spill half his bucket (not sure of the correct term) of molten bronze on wet concreate. I can be a bit of a dumb@ss, but even I know to avoid that. I will not link because I do not want to embarrass the guy.

This one looks more like they know what they are doing, and they are trying to use 15th century techniques:

For anyone further interested, I forgot that I found their report on the cannon casting project. Some interesting additional information.
One particular fascinating detail is that the research group went to India to learn more about low tech bronze casting, because they still use traditional techniques for casting large religious objects and there is a preserved cannon foundry.

The report is the PDF attached.

 

[TobJohn]

That's not a ball, but a chakram.
View attachment 236697
Deadly Frisbee's

India may have the coolest melee weapons in history, that were also actually used.

 

[TobJohn]

The first one with the 'pattern of raised bumps' should be understood as checkering.
It is much coarser checkering than we are used to, but it looks like excellent for retention as you handle it - eg reloading on horseback.

That is a great observation. It does appear somewhat common on pistols.

Interestingly, one of the oldest surviving wheellock hunting guns has a horn veneer that creates a similar aesthetic, though presuming only for the aesthetic purpose:

Wheellock sporting rifle - N/A Unkown maker - Royal Armouries collections

 

[TobJohn]

I was trying to find examples of how big pieces of horn inlay on guns would be made, and I rediscovered this photo I took of the Royal Armouries’s petronel. The damage to the stock inlay helps show how it was made out of many different pieces of bone.

 

[Rudyard]

Horn can be heated and made flat that will retain its shape . Bone tends to have flecks I posted a pic of my stag flask I made today on British militaria forums( I didn't make it today I started in Alice. Springs in 1968 )But Stag horn is good near like ivory .
Regards Rudyard

 

[TobJohn]

Horn can be heated and made flat that will retain its shape . Bone tends to have flecks I posted a pic of my stag flask I made today on British militaria forums( I didn't make it today I started in Alice. Springs in 1968 )But Stag horn is good near like ivory .
Regards Rudyard

Rudyard,

How do you make the horn/bone ramrod retainer and nose cap on your guns?

Are they antler that is cut into shape, or bone that is bent into shape?

 

[PhDBrewer]

Bone and antler can be found as pet chew toys in large enough sizes for the cap pieces. Made these stolen from Milo's toys...

Crazy crow also sells horn blanks for that purpose.

 

[Rudyard]

Rudyard,

How do you make the horn/bone ramrod retainer and nose cap on your guns?
View attachment 254248
Are they antler that is cut into shape, or bone that is bent into shape?

Well I think they are stag horn and held in a slight dove tail with glue the rod tip is a stag tine ,the nose cap might be bone .I've had a sleep since then ,
I Much doubt you can boil or mould either. Stag dog chews is a new one on me . Raw hide yes but I don.t use much of that for anything . If I do need some tubular private parts of an Elephant to completely restore an Elephant gun I have .I say' Elephant 'its about 6 bore certainly big game . However the numbers of Elephant's in NZ is some what limited and zoo keepers have sensible objections to people seeking the correct parts required to bind the wrist & lock area . Not that there are many wild Elephant's wandering round the Interland (They introduced quite enough non native game animals as it is and had to draw a line somewhere ). The virtue of Tubular portions of that size was once stretched into place it dried & shrank with a tremendous grip .That region being prone to breakage when irate Elephants stomped on the gun & your bearer poor fellow. But when many miles away in the hinterland it's inconvenient to get a replacement gun .(Plenty of Boys you understand but no gun shops ) So I must consider dog chews ( the cats looking at me but she's safe , much too small .) Trust that helps
. Now where did I put my Solar Topee.
Regards Rudyard

 

[Rudyard]

Wow all these posts just popped up great subject Pukka knows his stuff. I. once made a snap matchlock after Hans Morl for Mr Tromner but he never responded even though Ide took it England for proof . So I sold it in Ohio. where it resides still. Further to my earlier post re Elephant gun .I dug it out and some relate items the horn is African but they didn't reload from a horn so much rather grabbed a handfull of powder from a bag they wore. Pretty frantic stuff after the first shot . Yet it was made with a set trigger a weakening folly as I see it but I wasn't there . The tin sheave was a common repair so I replaced it as it was with new tin( bar the Elephant bit )it came to me in three pieces and the butt plate robbed as well a the guard but I made wooden patterns to cast in white brass had to make the guard pattern with a bend so it fit a founders flask . Buckley & Co London was the Enfield size lock marked probably Cape Retailers . the porridge spoon is Zulu I found it in an abandoned Kraal the knife pure theater no idea of original use just suited I thought .

Re the bending of bone or stag the thin like wire decoration like the silver wire (I hate it it picks up to readily ). that thin might bend never tried it .
Regards Rudyard

 

[Rudyard]

Interestingly the door has a veneer of' Sapele' its a town in Nigeria if I remember correctly so its African too !. From" The' Evil Bight of Benin' ,Where few com out though many go in'' A reference to the ruffian Palm oil days . Though the Consulate was described as' A tin coffin houseing a dead Consul every year '. How ever I digress .Stick to guns Rudyard !.
Well there where plenty of' Dane guns' about still being knocked up in Lorry parks The most Famous Jimmo Babatundi being written up once in' Guns & Ammo ' by Paul Adamson. I bought a lock from him & made a galved' water pipe special' just to the set the lock into context Yes I know their crude but they will pop a Diaker 'Bush deer' or juicy Porcupine so don't knock em . There must be some US PCVs on the forum I met a great many on that pestilent coast so some ' Dane guns 'might have reached the US as curios .
Rudyard the meanderer

 

[RAEDWALD]

Wow all these posts just popped up great subject Pukka knows his stuff. I. once made a snap matchlock after Hans Morl for Mr Tromner but he never responded even though Ide took it England for proof . So I sold it in Ohio. where it resides still. Further to my earlier post re Elephant gun .I dug it out and some relate items the horn is African but they didn't reload from a horn so much rather grabbed a handfull of powder from a bag they wore. Pretty frantic stuff after the first shot . Yet it was made with a set trigger a weakening folly as I see it but I wasn't there . The tin sheave was a common repair so I replaced it as it was with new tin( bar the Elephant bit )it came to me in three pieces and the butt plate robbed as well a the guard but I made wooden patterns to cast in white brass had to make the guard pattern with a bend so it fit a founders flask . Buckley & Co London was the Enfield size lock marked probably Cape Retailers . the porridge spoon is Zulu I found it in an abandoned Kraal the knife pure theater no idea of original use just suited I thought .

Re the bending of bone or stag the thin like wire decoration like the silver wire (I hate it it picks up to readily ). that thin might bend never tried it .
Regards Rudyard


View attachment 254363
View attachment 254362
View attachment 254361
View attachment 254360

Re the silver wire, a trick, used in the Gulf at least, was to use aluminium wire instead of silver. Inset as wire (or a thin strip sliced off the edge of a sheet of scrap) it looks much the same as silver in the wood where folk rarely polish it. Softer too and much less springy and definitely cheaper.

Of course aluminiums vary. I recall we had to undo all our repairs to a racing car chassis when we found that we had been given aluminium that was too soft and would buckle under stress and the rivets pull out. Then I wrote it off in use, but that is another tale.

 

[Rudyard]

Re the silver wire, a trick, used in the Gulf at least, was to use aluminium wire instead of silver. Inset as wire (or a thin strip sliced off the edge of a sheet of scrap) it looks much the same as silver in the wood where folk rarely polish it. Softer too and much less springy and definitely cheaper.

Of course aluminum's vary. I recall we had to undo all our repairs to a racing car chassis when we found that we had been given aluminium that was too soft and would buckle under stress and the rivets pull out. Then I wrote it off in use, but that is another tale.

Agree some aluminum is quite bright ,I've used it in chiseled out breach makers the name oblongs Poincions once stook they secure the in itaglio letters & pass for platina and don't seem to have dulled any more than platina would .Never had a racing car don't drive any car can but no need my' Company viecle' is a battered old push bike
Regards Rudyard ie Me

 

[TobJohn]

Here is an article on 16th century arms decoration I rediscovered on my computer. I cannot remember where I originally found it, so my apologies if it was previously posted here.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Interesting notes from the article attached on the Munich Court (read: Guild) making wheellocks ... note the underlined!.

"Even though the workshop of the Court of Munich is referred to as the Sadeler-Spat workshop and the guns made there were associated to and bore the name of the steel chiseler, the gun was far from completed when turned out by these men. In fact it would require at least six specialists to finish one gun:

1. A Locksmith to make the lock in rough iron​

2. A Barrelsmith to make the barrel in rough iron​

3. An Iron Chiseler to decorate the lock, barrel and iron furniture for the gun​

4. A Gilder to finish the iron parts different from the chiseler​

5. A Stocker to make the stock and assemble the parts and place the inlays​

6. An Engraver to engrave the staghorn, bone and ivory inlays of the stock​

Some of these specialists were employed by the workshop while in other instances the guns were taken to the specified specialist."

 

[TobJohn]

Interesting notes from the article attached on the Munich Court (read: Guild) making wheellocks ... note the underlined!.

"Even though the workshop of the Court of Munich is referred to as the Sadeler-Spat workshop and the guns made there were associated to and bore the name of the steel chiseler, the gun was far from completed when turned out by these men. In fact it would require at least six specialists to finish one gun:

1. A Locksmith to make the lock in rough iron​

2. A Barrelsmith to make the barrel in rough iron​

3. An Iron Chiseler to decorate the lock, barrel and iron furniture for the gun​

4. A Gilder to finish the iron parts different from the chiseler​

5. A Stocker to make the stock and assemble the parts and place the inlays​

6. An Engraver to engrave the staghorn, bone and ivory inlays of the stock​

Some of these specialists were employed by the workshop while in other instances the guns were taken to the specified specialist."

It certainly helps explain how highly decorated guns could be made in huge quantities!

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Flint,
It sounds just like the Birmingham gun trade in the 19th and early 20th century!
Even now a lot of stuff is made on the jobber principle.

 

[TobJohn]

There is an example in this book:
In the Emperor's Service | Century of the Soldier 1618-1721 | Helion & Company
Where excavation of a 30 years war battlefield uncovered three muskets with initials on the right side of the buttstock. All relatively crude and varied, so most likely the soldiers’ initials. A small example of “decoration” by the user.

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

I decorate ALL my firearms with a personal scratch, dent or two or three or more; depends upon use!!!
Only the never used ones have no personal "decoration"!

 

[TobJohn]

I decorate ALL my firearms with a personal scratch, dent or two or three or more; depends upon use!!!

During the heyday of the landsknechts, during the first half of the 16th century, they would buy or rent their own equipment and bring it with them when they mustered into a unit.

During the 30 years war, a musketeer’s weapon would have been purchased by the noble/entrepreneur raising the unit. On one hand, you probably don’t care too much about keeping a gun someone else paid for nice, on the other, the person that paid for it doesn’t value your life all that much.

I wonder which was a better motivator to keep your gun pristine…

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

I wonder which was a better motivator to keep your gun pristine…

I have to think about that question. If I didn't survive the war...with my last breath laying face down in the mud...I might care less.
If I survived.....I would restore it to pristine except for my initials and date in the stock, hang it on the wall for posterity for someone like TobJohn 400 years later to buy at auction as a rare pristine 30 years war memento, then with the last and perhaps only shekel that I earned fighting for the king... buy me a beater to hunt with so I wouldn't starve to death!