I posted this before dont know if any body seen it.

[wire]

What we need most is for those companys still making traditional muzzleloaders is to push that side a little more. Every add every promo is for the latest and greatest inline or ammo or powder. I am a big fan of the outdoor chanel and you never see our style of hunting. Unless its shown how is any new hunter going to know the difference. I went to Gander Mountain to pick up a few supplies and could not get any round ball no patches no black powder no nothing. The person behind the counter said people still use that stuff I was shocked. I understand the fact that they dont have many 58. cal supplies because not many people use it but still.When some one decides to start muzzleloading what they are able to get is a big part of what they decide to use. When I was at Gander Mountain they had 23 muzzleloaders to chose from and all were inlines.Unless the makers of these firearms do a better job of talking about this side of muzzleloading it will only get worse. I can honestly tell you if I was not able to mail order my hawken I would most likely be using a inline because that is all that is redily available. My best guess is that if givin a chance if some one walked into a gunshop and seen hawken rifles or any traditional firearm the sales would be higher because a gun lover of beautiful lines and nice wood would choose these firearms over the unsightly plastic and stainless inlines that everybody carries.When givin a choice of trucks it makes no difference if you like chevy ,ford or dodge if only ford is sold. And no other is available.

 

[jethro224]

Yeah. And they could lobby in states like mine that have "Muzzleloader" season to try and get a "Primitive" season too. Then they could sell even more trad guns.
There are lots of guys who would buy both guns and hunt both seasons if they had the chance. Heck, I know guys who would buy a 12ga tag, a 20ga tag, a rifle tag, a pistol tag, a inline tag, a primitive tag... One of 'em might be me.

 

[shmrck1]

Boomer,
Your right it is becoming very difficult
to obtain just about anything related to B/P.
Maybe,sometimes during deer season or on
occasion at gun shows. I get just about every-
thing from powder to patches via mail order.
Main reason is because of the great selection
that you have available.
snake-eyes :hmm:

 

[Claude Mathis]

It's my observation that companies mostly run ads for products that are selling well in the marketplace. That is, if product "A" is selling well for most companies, other companies are going to run ads for their product "A", to be competitive. They won't run ads for product "B" which has proven to not be as popular.

Also, stores carry what is selling the most. If, all of a sudden, they see another company doing well with a product, they'll begin carrying it. But they have to see a market trend for that to happen. They aren't going to invest in, and push a product that nobody is buying.

I also don't know how much a rack of cap-locks at WalMart will foster a general interest in Muzzleloading. When I decided to purchase my first muzzleloader, it wasn't because I saw them in a store. It was because I had an existing interest in the "subject". That is, I already had a passion for history, Daniel Boone, Colonial America, etc. I didn't walk into a store, see a flintlock and say, "Hey, I think I'll try one of those". I already knew I wanted one, so I sought out a source.

The current problem is, people aren't all that interested in muzzleloading, like they used to be. The Davy Crockett generation has grown-up and the children coming behind us have no interest in that era, so consequently, no interest in the firearms of that era. Kids want to play with Glocks, and Uzis when they pretend to be a Gangbanger, Pimp or Drug Lord. The fact that one of the most popular video games today is, "Grand Theft Auto", where you steal cars and shoot cops, should tell us something.

It's possible that that large companies that manufacture traditional muzzleloaders could someday cease production and muzzleloaders will only be made by individual gun-makers.

 

[bnail]

From what you Say Claude, isn't ironic that the media helped start this pursuit of ours, and it apperantly will help end it as well? :hmm:

 

[faw3]

Ya I was really ready for this one to open here and they had nothing for the non in li guys I said something about it and they looked at me like I was nuts. Close to all the place's here are letting stock run out, most stuff I get is thru the mail/ups. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[renovato]

Our side of the market just isn't very big compared to the inline side. Also a lot of traditional shooters buy custom guns or kits and don't buy production guns. They're going to spend money on advertising to target the market with the largest returns. Unfortunately, that's not us. I wish it wasn't so, but alas...

 

[Stumpkiller]

True enough. We come here because we're sick of or disenchanted with what is easy and available. Even though he don't pay me a cent and I wouldn't take it if he offered I'll stand here and say I am damned happy Claude puts up with the manure and flak and still sees enough need and reason to provide this place for us. :hatsoff:

(It ain't really brown nosin if ye don't get nuttin special out of it, is it?) :hmm:

Last time I was in Gander Mt. they had one "short" box of 25 Hornady .490" balls. That was it. No #11 primers, no blackpowder. Wouldn't know a flint from Shineola. They also did not have a .30 caliber bore brush!?! I have somehow survived these last two years without returning.

 

[Pork Chop]

You identified part of the problem. There seems to be a large contingent of traditional guys that look down their noses at any production gun. The disdain for produciton pieces is evident to those that are mildly interested, and the assumption by the possible converts is that the sidelock production guns are junk, but since the inlines are all over, they must be much better made. To some extent the traditionalists caused the demise of the production sidelock...

 

[TANSTAAFL]

I also don't know how much a rack of cap-locks at WalMart will foster a general interest in Muzzleloading. When I decided to purchase my first muzzleloader, it wasn't because I saw them in a store. It was because I had an existing interest in the "subject". That is, I already had a passion for history, Daniel Boone, Colonial America, etc. I didn't walk into a store, see a flintlock and say, "Hey, I think I'll try one of those". I already knew I wanted one, so I sought out a source.

Wally World is the most bottom line prone company imaginable. If X amount of product Y is not sold by day Z, hasta la vista baby to product Y. I once read, that at the end each day, everything sold worldwide for that day is known in AR. The temperature in every store supposedly was computer controlled from their home office.

 

[renovato]

Stumpy, I couldn't agree more. Claude and the Moderators do a great job of keeping this board on track. This is by far the best board I've ever seen, of any kind, and of any subject whatsoever.

 

[shortstring]

What we need to do is bring back the thought that when a hunter/ shooter has truely matured and is ready for the challange that traditional muzzleloading is waiting for him. Now I know I'm preaching to the choir & I'll get little arguement about that point of view, it's the rest of the world that needs an education. That way of thinking is alive & well in archery. The trad. archers are selling the point of view that they are a step up from machine bows, not a step backwards. I'm convinced that many machine bow shooters wish they had the time & devotion to step up to this challange. We could use a national organization that existed to sell this point of view. The organization could exist to buy advertisment in national publications & networks, the ads should be positive statements about our sport. They shouldn't be attacks on the modern stuff, as this mentality just alienates anyone seeing it. A good example of this problem is the split among us concerning production & custom guns or bullets & round balls or flint & perc. The negitive input just chases people away.

 

[shmrck1]

Plink,
I received an add from Gander Mountain in
yesterdays mail and this is a breakdown of the
gun adds: 6 shotgun
2 handguns
2 22 rifles
1 .223 rifle
14 muzzleloaders(all I/L)
I really don't know how they got my name/
address, but I won't be shopping there anytime soon,for sure!
snake-eyes :nono:

 

[Blizzard of '93]

Reasonable observation Claude. the demand dictates marketsupply.
interesting point- after the general take-up of handguns in England there was a sharp increase in demand for Ruger OA's as well as other C&P revolvers. sidenote to that - C&P's have been used several times to fend off 'home invader' type criminals with many of them shot- some fatally.

 

[Vairochana]

Gday,
as someone new to BP I have been following the discussions regarding traditional v inline with some interest, more so as I am in Australia and the situation is very different here.
All the BP guns I have seen have been traditional sidelocks, rifles and smoothbores.
I think a large part of the difference is that we do not have a special ML season like you guys do.
People seem to get into BP for the challenge and the history.
Also hunting seaosns are not a big thing here, we do have deer and duck seasons, but the most common game is pigs, dogs,foxes and bunnies, with the odd bit of roo culling. Out west we have wild bulls, camels and donkeys/horses for something bigger.
I have heard of MLs being used on all of these but again never an inline.
From what I am reading it does seem to be largely a question of marketing, what started as a bit of friendly(?) snobbery has escalated into a fight which may threaten a sport having a continuous history of 300+ years.
I think the danger you face is similar to the situation in Australia 10 years ago where the sporting shooters were not united and were unable to deal effectively with a government which suddenly decided to try to take our sport away, the difference being that it willl be market forces which do it to you.
Am I off track here? :yakyak:

 

[rabbit03]

Hi Tan, Wally World doesn't get any of my business any longer for lots of reasons. Your observation is just one of them.

Mostly though it is that they are no longer selling AMERICAN MADE products and are nothing more than a distributor for China (communitst china) and I can't be a part of buying cheap throw away products any longer.

rabbit03