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I just ordered a Traditons Mountain rifle, anyone interested in a build post?

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I've only done one kit, a TC Hawken, but reading your threads is giving me the itch again. If I ever get done doing basement finishing work for the wife, I may give it another go. The Hawken turned out nice, but contrary to its name, it is far from an accurate representation of a plains or mountain rifle of the 18th and early 19th century.


IMG_1395.JPG


I think I want the next to be more historically accurate, but I'm not sure just what it will be at this point.
 
I've only done one kit, a TC Hawken, but reading your threads is giving me the itch again. If I ever get done doing basement finishing work for the wife, I may give it another go. The Hawken turned out nice, but contrary to its name, it is far from an accurate representation of a plains or mountain rifle of the 18th and early 19th century.


I think I want the next to be more historically accurate, but I'm not sure just what it will be at this point.

That did turn out very nice. Wish my "Hawken" looked 1/2 that good.
Nice job.

Believe it or not I too would like to find a kit more historically accurate, but all of the off the shelf kits I have looked at over the past 24 hours do not even come close to that, so...…
I am watching a series of you tube videos today on actually doing one from scratch.

Basic stock shape quite roughly cut, components ordered from vendors x,y, and z.... and even the guys I have seen so far have said that getting something historically accurate is quite the challenge.
One guy said he was quite proud of his build, but then when he showed it to people in the know, they blew him away with all of the things that were not historically accurate about it. LOL
I never really thought about that aspect until I signed up here, and man, these guys really do know their stuff with the historical part.

Before I go this route, I am going to have to continue my research quite deeply, decide what I want, and pray the rest comes to me through my research.
Well, back to the videos, it does seem that having the correct good tools along with a good plan is the key to building from scratch.
 
To us "critics" it may not be historically accurate but grab it and the possible bag and head to the time machine and I would bet nobody would have much to say about. It looks dang near like what would be there, they would wonder what the heck the sites were made of (unless we switched to the primitive before the journey).

As ya probably have figured out, I'm not a H/C P/C guy so much and I like mine alot. Would I like a Custom? Yep and when the mortgage burning parties over I may get one. Till then A Kibler or similar may be my next build. I believe I will start whittling u some logs just to get the hang of a parts gun tho....be fun and when its done I can toss it in the fire and start over.
 
Hey azmntman, I appreciate the "critics" myself, just because I think every criticism contains valuable information.

I grew up around an original Hawken, along with an original Henry 44/40, and I sure wish the Hawken was still available to me to use as a template, but sadly they have both mysteriously gone missing.

Little did we know back then that I would be doing this kind of thing, and I was actually laughed at back then and asked why the heck I would want to do that when we have much better rifles when I asked if I could shoot it.

I like the idea of a time machine, and I bet those old timers would actually like quite a few of the builds I am watching on YouTube today... man, this is going to take me years to do if I do choose to go with a blank.
It is giving me quite a high bit of respect for the builders on here for sure.

Hmmm, I am still looking at this pile of wood outside.... it is oak, but eh, I could practice on it if I choose to do so.

future stock.jpg


I have even gone so far as to investigate the proper way to cut a blank from a tree..... maybe I need a new hobby, or a life. Hehehhh
 
Hmmm, I am still looking at this pile of wood outside.... it is oak, but eh, I could practice on it if I choose to do so.

future-stock-jpg.1652


I have even gone so far as to investigate the proper way to cut a blank from a tree..... maybe I need a new hobby, or a life. Hehehhh

At least a new saw:)
 
...they would wonder what the heck the sites were made of (unless we switched to the primitive before the journey).

Since I'm the same age as Railshot, the rear sight is now a peep. My old eyes struggled with the factory sights. A peep with a large aperture for hunting solved the problem. It's not period either, but it sure helps!

BTW: I've never been accused of being PC either! I do think the Lyman GPR does a better job of capturing the look of the original Hawken type rifles than the TC does, even though they sneaked a coil spring into the lock, something the pioneers would have truly appreciated as it could have meant the difference between survival and death for them.
 
Railshot, the two pieces of wood at the front of your pic could be made into some really beautiful things. Where the branches converged the grain will be very elaborate, especially the second one back. I like to carve, not turn, bowls form that sort of wood. The straight logs should yield nice planks. Try to saw them out rather than splitting. I had a nice pear log that would have yielded one incredibly beautiful highly figured stock blank. I got greedy and decided I'd like to get two stock blanks out of it if i could and split it. All I did was ruin the thing. It's difficult to predict how a split will run. If you can't saw it, get a hewing axe or something and start swinging.
 
Quick update on my Traditions saga.....
I spoke with a representative at Traditions this morning after UPS tracking said my kit had been delivered at 10:40 am and received by Ewan.
The representative I spoke with said it may take 3 weeks to turn around due to it being hunting season and they have a heavy load with limited resources.

Interesting, because this is simply a return for a replacement kit, not a repair.

I will keep everyone up to date as things happen, but this is starting to get a little ridiculous to me.

Purchased on 11-27-18, received on 12-3-18, shipped back to Traditions on 12-5-18 with an RMA number from them, now it is 12-10-18 with confirmation from UPS it is there, and now, I am going to have to wait 3 more weeks to get a replacement kit?

Not happy with Traditions at the moment, and purchasing anything online in general..... my wife has purchased a couple of things recently that have been lost in space for over a month!

Next kit I will touch, examine, etc. or there will be no more "kits".

I have been considering another Crockett to do, as that has seriously become my favorite rifle and style (thanks again due to the input I got here).
I really love the look and feel of it.
I have a couple of ideas to improve it even more aesthetically, and like mine as it is, so that one is staying as is forever.
If I cannot examine one in person, I will not be doing that.

Anyone know of a rifle out there similar to the Crockett that I can consider?
Shape and caliber under .50 because I already have two .50's on the wall.

I will buy another to build while I wait if need be.....
Heck, it is winter here and I need something to do other than obsess about this one little kit.... Heheh.

Posting this only as a reference to anyone else that may have to go through this in the future, not a complaint.
 
Next kit I will touch, examine, etc. or there will be no more "kits".
Good luck with that. Might work with common, inexpensive, production-quality kits. You'll be spending far more money on gas when (IF???) you take the leap to a quality kit - which, by the way, contain quality parts and come with a guarantee...
 
Good luck with that. Might work with common, inexpensive, production-quality kits. You'll be spending far more money on gas when/IF you take the leap to a quality kit - which, by the way, contain quality parts and come with guarantees...

Already at Track of the Wolf in another tab this moment, so not considering a "kit" anymore.
Found a "kit" there just now, that is an Ohio rifle based on John and Caleb Vincent that has my eye!
Sweet looking piece if I may say so, and it fits my caliber requirements of being under .50 with options to choose from below .50 cal.
 
I'm 35 miles from Track, I've been in that shop way too much over the years!
When you buy something they start logging your total spending with simple zip code and last name.
I asked them once, "Hey,, what's my total?"
He told me. :eek:!
That Vincent is a far cry from a box kit. You'll spend 15hrs installing that butt plate alone. There ain't no holes drilled for nuthin,, you gotta make each drilled hole yourself. Through the metal parts and wood. (each one)
That lock won't just drop in that hole,, an there ain't no taped/threaded hole in the lock for the screws,, you gotta drill them and tap'm.
An that shop ain't nothin like a store where ya get to shop around and look at different kits all ready an such,, it's a counter,, you ask for a part you need ,, he goes back an get's that part.
You walk in that shop and ask for a Vincent kit, you will get one person to help you and they are good people, but your gonna stand there for an hour while they gather all the stuff. They'll let ya pick the wood.
Now I ain't doggin TOW, an I ain't doggin the Vincent. Don't get me wrong.
But you step up to a big boy kit from any of the suppliers, there's a lot more going on.
Instead of just drilling another hole for the tang screw,, you gotta fit the tang (after you've fit the breech plug to the barrel then the tang to the hook and inlet those in the proper position) choose where to start the hole through the metal of the tang, then determine the angle of the tang screw to meet the trigger plate, bevel that hole for the tang screw, then drill and tap the trigger plate to accept the tang screw.
Don't mean no disrespect,, You should be able to handle it,, I just wanted to give ya a heads up.

p.s. You should at least get the TOW catalog, they have "actual size" photos of many-many available parts,, that is useful in so many ways when trying to make or fit things we use for these guns
 
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Not a half stock fan/ hawken guy, however... IMO Ohio halfstock rifles have beautiful slender stock architecture that just molds with the longer barrels. They are delicate and take allot of time to properly shape. Honestly if your pulling for a track kit I'd HIGHLY recommend you think over the advice I gave above on the English Fowler or trade rifle. Not saying you can't do the Ohio, but it indeed may seem like a simple rifle but the stock will require a tedious amount of wood removal to shape correctly, not to mention most Ohio's have a poured pewter nose cap which isn't hard to do but tricky to get right.

On another note... Here is an original 1857 Ohio halfstock built by the gun maker J Hefner of Marion Ohio. I repaired this rifle after purchasing it from a distant co-worker years ago. It hung over a fireplace mantel for many years and it is something I'm very proud of being an Ohioan myself. It's a .45 caliber that I re- bored from what appeared to be a .40 caliber. It wears a reproduction goulcher lock from RE Davis. The original goulcher lock is displayed in my shop. Rifle had a crack along the wrist which is a common problem with originals, fixed the crack with a special gun bedding epoxy and maple pins. She is a joy to shoot and look at!
 

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necchi and Crewdawg445, thanks for the input once again.

I do have quite a bit of experience in drilling and tapping, so that is really a non issue for me when it comes to a build.

40 years of plastic injection molding, starting out as a lead maint mechanic, then tool building and design, then processing, then management, and then... retired.... thus the still ever present need to work with my hands, and why the hands hurt when I overdo it.
Mechanics is in my blood, and always will be.

If I should decide to go with TOW, it will be my final build.
I am thinking it may be a 1 to 2 year build, done at a very slow pace to the greatest perfection I can muster.

All of the mechanics are really quite simple for me, it is the stock finishing / fitting that I am teaching myself with these lesser kits, and I am feeling pretty confident as to what to do and when now.
There is something about the Ohio shape that really appeals to me which is why I zeroed in on that particular rifle.
I like the shape.

necchi, that store sounds perfect for me, and worth the trip just to meet the people and get to know them even if I do not purchase one of their kits.
Sounds like the hardware store I used to get all my stuff from a long time ago....
Wooden floors, tin ceiling, a counter with one guy that knew everything and where it was.
I would actually go there just to hang out because of the atmosphere.
Heheh, it was actually a hardware / grocery store called Elgers.

Crewdawg445, I have been checking out your latest build, and I have to say you do have skills and a good eye for detail.
That Ohio you rescued is a fine example of what I like as far as shape, and it is great that you did rescue it.

To be honest, I have contacted several local smaller gunsmiths in my area already, and have asked them to keep an eye out for just such a rifle for me to rescue.
My entire family has been notified to call me if they see almost anything for sale at estate sales or rummage sales if it has an octagonal barrel on it.
They are only original once.... everything else is just a copy.

I am the exact opposite of you when it comes to 1/2 stock vs. full stocks, but appreciate both of them also.
As a matter of fact, my Kentucky is actually starting to grow on me more and more every time I put a little more into it, which I still do when I see a need, so full stock is not out of the question for me.
 
Update: Tuesday 12-11-2018 9:30 am.

Traditions just called and they are sending me the kit back.
Should be here by Friday or early next week.
They have replaced the stock as it was quite bad and drilled way off.
They had never seen one like it.....

Good service, just my lack of patience I guess.
 
If you take a good look at Crewdawg's pics you should notice the similarity between the Ohio style and all the many "Hawkens" available, such as the Traditions.

My forefathers mostly came to Kansas in 1854 from Ohio via Illinois. My brother wants me to build from scratch an Ohio style rifle such as our ancestors might have had. Doing my research I found the Association of Ohio Longrifle Collectors. Look it up and read all the pdf text there. You will find the Vincent style is more a family style and not as wide spread as is often said.

The Vincent buttplate isn't so much a buttplate as it is two prongs to jab you on firing. Sure, it can work when hooked onto the upper arm above the biceps, but is that a good way to shoot? Looking at rifles of all sorts throughout history just how many have butt plates in that horny Vincent style? That ought to tell you something.

The past two gun shows here I've looked at an original rifle done in Vincent style, which I think about buying, but it would just be a wall hanger.
 
Well that's realistic,
Here's a link to a great "tutorial" available in pdf;
http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/iB_html/uploads/post-71-31335-black_powder_build_primer.pdf
While Mike starts with a blank, those 90% inlet stocks still require fitting of all the parts much like a raw stock.

Good stuff and pdf saved to go through completely later.
Just after a quick browsing of it, all of those steps should be taken no matter what caliber of kit you are building for sure.

If you take a good look at Crewdawg's pics you should notice the similarity between the Ohio style and all the many "Hawkens" available, such as the Traditions.

My forefathers mostly came to Kansas in 1854 from Ohio via Illinois. My brother wants me to build from scratch an Ohio style rifle such as our ancestors might have had. Doing my research I found the Association of Ohio Longrifle Collectors. Look it up and read all the pdf text there. You will find the Vincent style is more a family style and not as wide spread as is often said.

The Vincent buttplate isn't so much a buttplate as it is two prongs to jab you on firing. Sure, it can work when hooked onto the upper arm above the biceps, but is that a good way to shoot? Looking at rifles of all sorts throughout history just how many have butt plates in that horny Vincent style? That ought to tell you something.

The past two gun shows here I've looked at an original rifle done in Vincent style, which I think about buying, but it would just be a wall hanger.

I love knowing family history.....
I have a story that my great grandmother told about their voyage from New York to here in Wisconsin and it makes for a good and funny true campfire story.

They were a little late to join the early westward expansion to here in Wisconsin from New York after they immigrated, met and married.
When they finally decided to make the move, the outfitters were out of white canvas for the wagon they had, and had to settle on red canvas... my great grandmother loved it, my great grandfather (a rather serious down to earth German fellow)..... not so much.

Bottom line is, they did not get along all that well after a few days / weeks of travel (newlyweds) and actually stopped in Ohio where this happened...
The very short version,...... my great grandfather started walking away and leaving my great grandma behind to fend for herself (great grandma might have weighed 90 lbs. at 5 foot tall all her life, picture a petite, French born, city slicker woman around 19 years old), she got hungry, threw a full can of unopened beans on the campfire, it exploded and my great grandfather came running back thinking she had shot herself...…. When he saw her by the campfire covered in beans, he could not stop laughing.
They were together and happy ever since, and laughed a lot!

I love telling that story, so please forgive me for this one, but it just makes me feel good to tell it!.... again, and again, and again as my kids would say. Heheh

I can see what you are saying about the Vincent style, and have not decided totally on that particular one, so I am still looking.
I do like the Ohio style though, and it fits in with my story quite well.
I say build what style you like, shoot what style you like, and life will be good.
 
Hey, how come you guys have not recommended Pecatonica River to me yet?

Nice looking "kits" of the higher skill level from what I see on the web page, and prices are outstanding!
If I would have known this, I would have 3 of them in the works by now..... hehehh

Their Ohio kit does appeal to me, along with several others.... dang..... that transitional Kentucky is nice along with the Lehigh County rifle and Southern Mountain..... and, and, and,.....
Heheh it never stops does it?

I just found them, and like what they offer, and are within a very reasonable distance from me.
I did a search here on the forum, and cannot find anything negative posted that I could not handle.

I like this quote from their web page, "Our intent is to produce a product better than you expected."

Sounds like something I would love to investigate further.
Anyone have input?
 
Almost all of the longrifles I've built are Pecatonica River "kits".
They have (IMO) the best prices on wood and the wood they send is always as good as if not better than the similar "grades" that other suppliers offer.

Dick Greensides who owns the company has been in business for years and he is always most helpful to anyone who has a question about his companies kits.
I highly recommend Pecatonica River.

I guess the reason I didn't mention this in earlier posts is I wasn't sure you were ready for the kits they provide.

These are basically a box of rough castings, a mostly finished lock and trigger and a pre-carved stock and the take a LOT of WORK to put together.

Nothing is drilled. Nothing is a drop in. The stock has a LOT of wood left on it so the builder can remove wood to suit the gun he's building.

I figure it is safe to say, putting one of these "kits" together takes at least 120 hours and in my case, more like 180 hours each.
Building them also includes a lot of nail biting time when drilling the holes for the barrel pins and doing similar things where a mistake can mess up a $150 piece of wood.

In other words, these are not for everyone.

I think the builds I did with them are pretty nice. Could have done better but they are finished now and I enjoy owning them.

Penn-Rifle-030037.jpg
Penn-Rifle-a.jpg
 
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