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How many shots before cleaning

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silverfox

50 Cal.
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
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Stumpy Moose Juice was the lube. The setting was a Boy Scout Camp. The rifle and Investarms .50 with walmart ticking (red) and 40 grains (Don't want to say Elephant 3f) It shot all day well over 120 shots without swabbing the barrel. The last shot was as easy to load as the first. The only cleaning was the nipple was wiped about 3 times during the day. No misfires.
Cleanup was less than 10 patches to have the bore back to mirror. The hard part was cleaning around the nipple area as it was caked with about 1/8" of carbon took about 16 minutes to clean.
Thanks Stumpy for you Moose Milk this group down here are believers in Moose milk now.
The other guns used had to be cleaned several times during the day.
I did use a sloppy patch but I now know for target shooting it's possible to shoot a rifle and keep it only 1 shot dirty. Thanks to a good lube patch combo.
Fox :hatsoff:
 
You is welcome. Pay it forward and do something nice for a fellow shooter - especially someone just starting out.

I pretty much use the Moose Snot as my lube with pre-patched balls in wood blocks and the Moose Juice to wipe and clean up, but occasionally I "set up" for a longer session and the Juice does make for more pleasant shooting.
 
I rarely clean between shots until I get up into the higher powder charges, back when I shot NSSA I'd shoot 100+ shots without cleaning during my practice sessions, if you are using small charges of 3f you can get away with it.
 
Man I was worried when I saw we were going to have to use Elephant. I have used it before and it was nasty stuff. We did have lots of sparks out the muzzle that I don't get with Goex. On Elephant powder if I get it I ususlly use it for flowers or give it away. Thanks Stumpy I have been passing your formula down at every chance I get.
Fox :thumbsup:
 
Here is the problem everyone runs into when they don't clean between every shot:

You go along, pushing more balls down, and it gets a bit harder to seat the ball with each shot, until someplace, you can't seat the ball at all!

Now you have a Bore Obstruction.

You can dribble a few drops of water, or liquid solvent, or even liquid lube down the bore, and wait 5 minutes to see if the liquid will infiltrate the cloth patch, and soften the crud that is stopping you from seating the ball.

Or you can try to muscle it down, risking breaking any wooden rod, or hammer it down, risking breaking a wood rod, or bending a metal range rod.

Or you can pull the ball with a ball puller jag, clean the gun and then load a NEW PRB down onto the powder charge.

Most of us have NO clue when you are going to get another ball down, and that next one that simply won't go. It depends on the caliber, the powder charge, the lube and patch used, the Weather, both temperature and humidity, and how long the barrel Set before you loaded the next charge and tried to load that next PRB. The only warning signs you get are a tight fitting PRB. If you have marked your RR for a Loaded PRB, the fact that the dirty barrel is requiring more effort to push the PRB down to the mark is the other "sign".

But, Like others, I tried to cut corners, and I found I could go past that mark by several loadings before I created that bore obstruction problem.

Then, I bench rested the gun, and noticed that shooting a dirty barrel caused the POI to change with each progressively dirty shot. I could get three shots into a group, but after that, I began to see " stringing". And, the second two shots were always together, but a bit away from that first shot, fired from a clean barrel.

I clean between shots NOW. I am not in a hurry to shoot any MLer. If I want to do fast shooting, I take out one of my repeating suppository guns. I take my time cleaning and reloading the gun, so that I can get the Best Accuracy out of the gun and do Precision shooting, whether its off a rest, or off-hand. (See my article on Off-hand, and Trick Shooting in the Member Resources section at the top of the index page to this forum). :thumbsup: By taking my time, I know that any "Miss" is my fault, and not that of the gun or my load. If you are ever going to improve as a shooter, you need that kind of consistency in your load, so that you can concentrate solely on your personal shooting skills.

Field Shooting( hunting and Hunters walks, or Seneca Runs) present enough terrain induced problems that interfere with your practiced stance, that you don't need other problems with your technique influencing the shot. When you can eliminate some of the variables in your load, why not do them? There are so many more over which you have little control! :hmm: :thumbsup:
 
That cleaning between every shot is great advice and I wish I had read it a few months ago. I had a JP Murray carbine, 58 cal that was very inconsistent. Seemed like the first few rounds sometimes were halfway decent then after that, it was a crapshoot. Thinking it was something with the gun I totally lost interest in it and not knowing what it was worth at the time, I gave it to my brother. Here I thought this was a 200 dollar gun, I went to Dixie, it's 750 now (I've owned it for 30 years). I've been kicking myself in the backside ever since. Anyways, he's having the same problem, I'm going to mention this to him.

It's a short rifled barrel, the thing sometimes does great, then other times it's all over the paper. He missed a deer a few weeks ago with it at 25 yards. I said, "now you know why you got it for that price" :rotf: .

Thanks, Ron
 
There are two ideas-I won't call them myths because there are so many variables-that are constantly repeated as if they were gospel. These are #1 small bores foul up way more than larger ones. #2 You have to clean between shots to get reloads down. There are many lubes, Crisco and other greases come to mind, that DO gunk up a bore so badly in just a few shots that by the third reload you're breaking a sweat just to whack the ball down. Now I use Crisco for my first load when hunting but not after that. The reason is that it won't dry out, wet the powder (I use an op wad anyway) or rust the bore if you don't fire the gun and leave it loaded.

There are three lubes that I know of and have used that will allow you to shoot basically all day without accuracy problems or ball seating problems. They are spit, DGW Black Solve and Hoppes #9 Plus. There are others, to be sure, but these are the ones I have personally used. If you use a too loose ball/patch combo all bets are off, however. I've found that by using one of the three I never have much more than one shots worth of fouling in the bore. My accuracy is as good at 30 shots as it is at 3 shots. Just my opinionated rambling.
 
I found I can shoot all day using the right lube in my deep-groove, slow twist round ball barreled guns. In my 1-48 shallow groove TC I haven't been able to get more than about 5 shots or so without cleaning. I prefer one of my round ball guns for shoots anyway.
 
Yes, I learned that years ago, too. However, the DOWNSIDE of all 3 lubes is that they are water based, and you can't leave them in the barrel all day( while hunting) without them drying out, and rusting the bore where the ball is seated. And, depending on how much of them you use, they will foul you powder charge, the longer they are left seated above the powder.

You can keep the powder from fouling by using an OP wad, but that doesn't keep the rust out of the barrel with the liquids dry. I still use spit patches when loading "from the bag", at the club range, where shots are fired Fairly quickly( You have to wait your turn on our Hunter's walk, but the group of shooters is small in number.)BTDT.

For Hunting, I use my Young Country 101, a/k/a Natural lube 1000, Bore Butter, and Wonderlube. I believe Stumpy's Moose Snot will work as well, as will any combination of Wax and non-petroleum-based oil. They are more stable Than spit or water based lubes, and don't Dry out. They also tend to Not migrate into the powder from the patch, and foul the powder or any portion of it. :thumbsup:
 
All right, y'all. Is moose snot available? Do you have to cook it up yourself or find a cooperative moose with a cold? GrampaJ in NC :idunno:
 
I swab with moose milk after every shot. The practice makes for consistency and consistency makes for accuracy. (Plus, no stuck balls.)
 
silverfox said:
Stumpy Moose Juice was the lube. The setting was a Boy Scout Camp. The rifle and Investarms .50 with walmart ticking (red) and 40 grains (Don't want to say Elephant 3f) It shot all day well over 120 shots without swabbing the barrel. The last shot was as easy to load as the first. The only cleaning was the nipple was wiped about 3 times during the day. No misfires.
Cleanup was less than 10 patches to have the bore back to mirror. The hard part was cleaning around the nipple area as it was caked with about 1/8" of carbon took about 16 minutes to clean.
Thanks Stumpy for you Moose Milk this group down here are believers in Moose milk now.
The other guns used had to be cleaned several times during the day.
I did use a sloppy patch but I now know for target shooting it's possible to shoot a rifle and keep it only 1 shot dirty. Thanks to a good lube patch combo.
Fox :hatsoff:

Easy loading is not the only criteria.
Fouling buildup in the breech can and has trapped hot spots that then ignites the charge during the loading cycle.

This has happened at least twice at the NMLRA range at Friendship in my memory.
I simply will not shoot this long without cleaning the gun.
I have little interest in having a charge ignite while I am pushing a ball down.

Dan
 
silverfox said:
Man I was worried when I saw we were going to have to use Elephant. I have used it before and it was nasty stuff. We did have lots of sparks out the muzzle that I don't get with Goex. On Elephant powder if I get it I ususlly use it for flowers or give it away. Thanks Stumpy I have been passing your formula down at every chance I get.
Fox :thumbsup:

Every lot of Elephant is different. They were doing a lot of experimentation at times.

Dan
 
Possibly I have missed something. Is there a reason you would want to shoot all day without cleaning?
 
I have a couple old cans of elephant. I burn some once in a while. It seems ok as far as being dirty. I feel better about useing it after your info. Larry
 
Paul, you're correct, of course. That's why I use a grease for my first load. It is seldom I fire more than a couple of shots in the deer woods so it's not really an issue. With something like squirrel hunting a fair amount of shooting takes place so the gun doesn't stay loaded for long either. I should mention that I don't hunt for a full day, just a few hours, then I have to hang it up for the day. At the range I do admit to occasionally running a brass brush down the bore to double check the breach area.
 
I think it's important to say that some barrels respond to this topic differently. Since the '70s I have always been in the "wipe between shots" group. I suppose I still am. I have had a series of barrels that liked to be shot clean. One had a rough barrel that shot very well but needed to be wiped between shots. Others shot best that way even with very nice bores. ALL had square bottom rifling.

This summer I acquired a Chambers Lancaster with a Rice .54 ROUND bottom rifled barrel. In ringing out this gun I found that it shot marvelously with or without wiping. It is the most accurate ML barrel I've owned even if I don't wipe between shots. My tendency is to continue to wipe when shooting from a loading bench, but on woods walks I likely won't.

Personal experiences aside, I believe the key here is to do what is necessary to make the gun shoot. What works in my round-bottom rifle barrel does NOT work in my Douglas square bottom barrel.

Regards,
Pletch
 

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