Help identify this

Discussion in 'Percussion Rifles' started by RickKlem, Jul 20, 2019.

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  1. Jul 20, 2019 #1

    RickKlem

    RickKlem

    RickKlem

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    I need help to identify this BP gun that I acquired .

    The markings are Marble's Gladstone Mich. Black Powder only Italy. 45 Cal. and then on the side plate is Armoury 6408.

    Thanks
    Rick

    20190720_132723.jpg 20190720_132727.jpg 20190720_132738.jpg 20190720_132747.jpg 20190720_132753.jpg 20190720_132817.jpg 20190720_132823.jpg
     
  2. Jul 20, 2019 #2

    Griz44Mag

    Griz44Mag

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    Looks like the engraving was done with an electric pencil....
    Maybe a common Italian made customized by the final seller?
     
  3. Jul 20, 2019 #3

    Griz44Mag

    Griz44Mag

    Griz44Mag

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    Looks like something was inscribed into the wood on the edge near the trigger under the "Identification" plate.
    Can you get a closeup of that area?
     
  4. Jul 20, 2019 #4

    8 BORE

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    A nice looking rifle. What ever it is.
     
  5. Jul 21, 2019 #5

    Cowboy

    Cowboy

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    WOW! Ya got me stumped on this one? Love the patchbox. I’m not gonna try and guess? Not a bad looking rifle my friend.

    Respectfully, Cowboy
     
  6. Jul 21, 2019 #6

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

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    Is that 6408 anywhere else on the rifle?
     
  7. Jul 21, 2019 #7

    8 BORE

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    Maybe date it was made June 4, 2008. ????????
     
  8. Jul 21, 2019 #8

    8 BORE

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    Is the trigger a set trigger ?
     
  9. Jul 21, 2019 #9

    Eras Gone

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    I have a similar rifle made by the same company. I uses the same components, but the stock shape is a little differnt and it is not engraved. It is imported by FIE back in the 70s (I bought mine new in 1973). I have not been able to identify the actual maker. It is a good reliable shooter, but is not a copy of any particular original. I still have mine, although I've not shot it in many years.
     
  10. Jul 21, 2019 #10

    flntlokr

    flntlokr

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    Looks like a lot of other Italian/Spanish rifles. Could have been a kit, or perhaps it was made for 'Marbles', which may be a sports shop or distributor. Usually there are a bunch of proof stamps on the barrels, and sometimes the maker's mark is with them; maybe on the bottom flat? The engraving is likely personal embellishment, or it was prize at a shoot or gun show and the 'Armory' etc memorializes that. Lots of possibilities.
     
  11. Jul 22, 2019 #11

    RickKlem

    RickKlem

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    I checked and it is just the markings in the wood grain, no engravings
     
  12. Jul 22, 2019 #12

    RickKlem

    RickKlem

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    Yes, I found it on the barrel. 6408.jpg
     
  13. Jul 22, 2019 #13

    RickKlem

    RickKlem

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    I am new to BP , so I am going to guess at this . The hammer has two positions that it sets at . Half way back and then full way back. Both can be released by pressure on the trigger.
     
  14. Jul 22, 2019 #14

    RickKlem

    RickKlem

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    20190721_185147.jpg I found more markings and it appears that it was built in 1975 (AA) and it has "PA" Proof marks. Also BP or PB in a circle but not sure if this is the manufacture.
    Just a few more pictures. I might be posting it for sale soon if I can determine a value.
    48.jpg creast.jpg markings.jpg red.jpg tip.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
  15. Jul 22, 2019 #15

    hawkeye2

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    Marble's Gladstone Mich. is the famous manufacturer of gun sights and has been in business since 1892.
     
  16. Jul 22, 2019 #16

    Griz44Mag

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    It's a cool looking rifle.
    Heck, I'll match that first offer and up it by 10 bucks. How does $160.00 sound???
    LOL, OK, but if you do decide to sell, I would be interested.
     
  17. Jul 22, 2019 #17

    Zonie

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    Those are Italian proof marks.

    If the hammer is pulled back about half way the lock should go into a "half cock" condition. Half cock is a safety position that is supposed to prevent the hammer from falling when the trigger is pulled.

    Pulling the hammer further back, the lock should go into a "full cock" position. In this condition, pulling the trigger should release the lock and cause the hammer to fall.

    If your locks half cock position doesn't prevent the trigger from releasing the lock there is something very wrong with it.

    It might be that the sear that engages the half cock and full cock position can't move easily because someone has overtightened the screw that holds it or, the notch that the sear is supposed to engage with is broken.

    To describe what is happening, there is a semi-round part inside the lock that the hammer is screwed to called the "tumbler". It is the part with the half cock and full cock notches in it. The "sear" is a movable part with a narrow, pointed nose on it that engages these notches.
    The half cock notch is supposed to have a small cut in it that just allows the nose of the sear to fit snuggly down into it. It has a "wall" that prevents the nose of the sear from slipping out or off of it.
    If this "wall" is broken there won't be anything to keep the nose of the sear from slipping off of the half cock notch.

    That is big time trouble because whenever the gun is loaded with a percussion cap on the nipple any blow from the hammer can cause the gun to fire.

    You might want to remove the lock from the gun and see what is happening inside it when the hammer is cocked.
    To do this, place the hammer at half cock and remove the two screws that are going thru the plate on the side opposite the lock.
    You may need to loosen the screw at the rear of the barrel that holds it into the stock.

    With these screws removed the lock should pull out of the stock. Be careful. Don't get your fingers near the hammer when you do this. If the sear is bumped, the hammer might fall, crushing your finger if it is in the way.
     
  18. Jul 22, 2019 #18

    Sinner

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    Zonie is right. The half-cock position of the hammer is a "safety", and definitely should not be able to be fired from that position (going of 1/2 cocked). I
    f you do put it up for sale, disclose that information and price it accordingly. At the least, it will need a part replaced, possibly the whole lock. I
    f you aren't knowledgeable with muzzleloader locks, it may be better to sell it as is rather than take it apart.
    BTW, Marbles started out in 1890's selling pocket axe, and started selling knives in 1900. The made rifle sights at one time as well. Your rifle was most likely imported and sold by Marbles sometime in the 1970's and someone "fancied it up" with some scroll work (which could be improved with an engraving chisel). I can't remember when the name changed to Marbles Gladstone.
     
  19. Jul 22, 2019 #19

    pamtnman

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    Italian gun, like an early Pedersoli. They are usually well made and reliable
     
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  20. Jul 22, 2019 #20

    8 BORE

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    Replace the whole LOCK. I thought it is a RECEIVER OR ACTION
     

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