HELP!!! Cannon Class Problems

[Bullmoose]

I was attending a class on Cannon school and the proper way of loading/firing/cleaning/ and procedure around cannons. There was 4 teachers and all for had some problems and taught different. Since I am a NRA Blackpowder instructor and we drill safety safety safety throughout our teaching. Plus you never point stand or get in front of a gun, loaded or not loaded. So at the class the instructor was in front of the cannon over and over and over again. Plus when I was cleaning out a live round, they said "STAND IN FRONT OF IT" to pull out the powder charge, you are doing it all wrong.

I told them I will not get in front of the cannon and neither will I stand and face down range the blow charge as it goes off. They were mad at me I think. When the say ready. The two front guys are suppose to stand and look down range, at another school I was trained to turn sideways and away from the blast as it goes off.
Am I wrong using my training to keep safe, or do I follow stupid people and get burn flashes on my face and or walk in front of a loaded cannon??? Bueamont Ranch in Tx. Is there any SAFETY training manuel out there on using antique or blackpowder cannonS

 

[bingo1952]

They were teaching 19th century drill as done by the military. Alteration in the interest of safety should be a prime consideration especially for recreational shooting. There should never be an occasion where you have to pull a live round and if you do I would want it flooded with water and given at least a 15 minute soak. :2

 

[dsuursoo]

They were teaching 19th century drill as done by the military. Alteration in the interest of safety should be a prime consideration especially for recreational shooting. There should never be an occasion where you have to pull a live round and if you do I would want it flooded with water and given at least a 15 minute soak. :2

ah, is what they're doing called 'being true to period'? perhaps we shouldn't change it, because then we'd be corrupting the history with our modern ways and means...

:haha: kidding, kidding.

*dons nomex*

 

[J.D.]

IMHO, anyone who stands in front of a loaded cannon tube is a total idiot. Anyone who teaches others to stand in front of a loaded tube is an irresponsible dumb a$$.

The artillery safety class hosted by the Forces of Montcalm and Wolfe, encourages the use of shepherds hook rammers so the crew can stay away from the muzzle. Moreover, they do not recommend gripping the rammer with thumbs wrapped around the rammer. The rammer is gripped, using only the fingers, with the thumbs tucked tightly to the side of the hand, so there is much less likelihood of losing body parts, in the event of an AD.

IMHO, While firing ML artillery is a real hoot, those guns are potentially very dangerous, so there is no compromise for safety, for any reason.

Be safe, and God bless,
J.D.

 

[dsuursoo]

IMHO, anyone who stands in front of a loaded cannon tube is a total idiot. Anyone who teaches others to stand in front of a loaded tube is an irresponsible dumb a$$.

The artillery safety class hosted by the Forces of Montcalm and Wolfe, encourages the use of shepherds hook rammers so the crew can stay away from the muzzle. Moreover, they do not recommend gripping the rammer with thumbs wrapped around the rammer. The rammer is gripped, using only the fingers, with the thumbs tucked tightly to the side of the hand, so there is much less likelihood of losing body parts, in the event of an AD.

IMHO, While firing ML artillery is a real hoot, those guns are potentially very dangerous, so there is no compromise for safety, for any reason.

Be safe, and God bless,
J.D.

still, if we wanted to be period about it...

 

[widget350]

Aye, though we aren't being shot at. There were many cannoneer injurd or worse due to their own cannon, but that was when the possibility of such was outweighed by the possibility of being killed by one's foe.

If someone's firing live rounds at me, all bets are off in the safety procedures of my loading.

 

[J.D.]

While I strive for authenticity, death, and dismemberment are not areas of period correctness I would want anyone to strive for. There are no excuses for ignoring safety in an attempt to achieve some radical extreme of historical correctness.

While it was historically correct to fire live rounds at the enemy in battle we would not think of even allowing rammers or wadding when engaging opposing forces at reenactments. No need to injure or kill one another, or one's self in an attempt to experience the times and culture of times gone by.

 

[bebloomster]

we would not think of even allowing rammers or wadding when engaging opposing forces at reenactments.

Not having a rammer would make it a bit difficult to get a foil wrapped powder charge down to the breech end of a cannon barrel.

 

[J.D.]

we would not think of even allowing rammers or wadding when engaging opposing forces at reenactments.

Not having a rammer would make it a bit difficult to get a foil wrapped powder charge down to the breech end of a cannon barrel.

My bad. Of course rammers are used to load foil cartridges in artillery. :v

I switched gears into battle reenactments using muskets, without thinking. :redface:

Rammers are not allowed for individual use when loading firelocks in battle reenactments.

 

[widget350]

They used to be, and still probably would be used, but for incidents caused by people not realizing they were handling a weapon.

 

I was attending a class on Cannon school and the proper way of loading/firing/cleaning/ and procedure around cannons. There was 4 teachers and all for had some problems and taught different. Since I am a NRA Blackpowder instructor and we drill safety safety safety throughout our teaching. Plus you never point stand or get in front of a gun, loaded or not loaded. So at the class the instructor was in front of the cannon over and over and over again. Plus when I was cleaning out a live round, they said "STAND IN FRONT OF IT" to pull out the powder charge, you are doing it all wrong.

I told them I will not get in front of the cannon and neither will I stand and face down range the blow charge as it goes off. They were mad at me I think. When the say ready. The two front guys are suppose to stand and look down range, at another school I was trained to turn sideways and away from the blast as it goes off.
Am I wrong using my training to keep safe, or do I follow stupid people and get burn flashes on my face and or walk in front of a loaded cannon??? Bueamont Ranch in Tx. Is there any SAFETY training manuel out there on using antique or blackpowder cannonS

This is a common problem, as those attempting to teach these "artillery classes" often have little or no actual formal training themselves. Many have been laid to rest because they didn't observe proper procedure and protocol of manning a field piece.

You did right by not heeding commands that placed your person in peril. Quite often artillery hobbyist groups are little more than good ole boy clubs. Sorry, but I call it as I have seen it.

I had one such group's leader denounce me, because I am a state certified cannoneer, qualified to oversee and man both cannon and mortar. But he stated it didn't mean a thing and censored, read that banned, me from posting in a forum dedicated to the use of blackpowder arms in a well known medieval reactment organization. Why was I banned, because I felt that a 19th century coehorn mortar did not belong on a 14th century battlefield, and it upsetted the mortar's owner, his friend, to hear such.

In short, you can caution others, but the only actions you can control are your own. Keep safe!

CP