Hawken with William Large barrel

[cadjak]

A close friend died in December. It fell to me to help his wife dispose of her husbands collection. I know almost nothing about black powder guns. One of the rifles is a Hawken with no markings except for the barrel "Wm Large".

The gun seems to be in perfect shape (to my eye). How can I determine a fair selling price for the rifle? What additional information will I need? Where could I post the pictures?
Thanks,
-cadjak

 

[rich pierce]

Bill Large was one of the original rifle barrel makers and may have been a founder of the NMLRA. He was a character and his barrels were highly sought after even after other offerings became available. It may be blasphemy but there are barrel makers now who turn out rifle barrels as good or better than his. But he was a legend and a gun with a Large barrel is always interesting. Without a maker's signature, however, it's tough to know whether the gun is "special" enough to warrant a "collectors item" price or whether it's just a good used shooter.

A fair price is what you can get for it. You could sell it at[url] auctionarms.com[/url], etc., Track of the Dog-like Creature, etc.

Low end- $450 if poorly built, plain, unattributed, etc.
Average- maybe $600 for a good used Hawken with something special like a Large barrel
High end- maybe $1200.

I'd take pictures and maybe contact Don Stith- a nice guy well versed in Hawkens, owns originals, makes the best Hawken kits, etc. He may have good advice for you.
www.donstith.com

rp

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Definitely get it appraised by an ethical appraiser. As Rich says, values can vary widely. Don Stith would be an excellent choice. I picked up a Hawken for small money a while back, and two knowledgable people have valued it at $2500 to $3000. Personally, if it doesn't shoot, it ain't worth having. But I'm probably a bit more careful in the woods with it than I am with my other guns.
Maybe you should catch the black powder bug and buy it yourself. And the rifle would make a wonderful keepsake. Might be woth thinking about. That Bill Large barrel is worth having all by itself.
In any case, allow me to offer my condolences for the loss of your friend. And welcome to the forum.

 

[cadjak]

Can anyone tell me what these faint markings might mean? They look like 3 letter Js with a letter L beneath them. All are under the W.M. Large imprint.

Thanks again for the help.
cadjak

BTT

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings Cadjack,

The 3 J's are the initails of the three daughters of Mr Large.

My 1972 Large 40 caliber barrel has four J's. One could approximately date a Large barrel according to the number of Js.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.

 

[davy]

Can anyone tell me what these faint markings might mean? They look like 3 letter Js with a letter L beneath them. All are under the W.M. Large imprint.

Thanks again for the help.
cadjak

BTT

If ya can, why don't you post a complete photo both sides of the rifle .. better to tell you what it is or may be what it is not! :shocked2: Just a thought .. since you posted this photo ... :grin:

Davy

 

[cadjak]

My Photo abilities are minimal, but I will try to get some up. Thanks

 

[cadjak]

My apologies for the quality of the photos.

 

[faw3]

Now that is nice very nice , except for the back sight it looks just like the Ithaca. Someone will want it..Bad. Fred :thumbsup:

 

This rifle was built from a kit from The Hawken Shop.IMO. The hammer and breech are from the castings Art Ressel had cast from an original in his collection. Art Ressel sold The Hawken Shop and it went to a fellow in Oregon I believe. Back when Art had the shop in St. Louis, Bill Large was one of the barrel options that Art offered the customer. If you could show the buttplate in detail and the ebtry thimble I could tell you more positively. But, I am almost certain that's a Hawken Shop hawken rifle from the Art Ressel in St. Louis era.
:hatsoff:

 

I found them. If you check out this site you'll have a better understanding of how much your friend invested in this rifle. Go to :
[url] http://www.thehawkenshop.com/[/url]
then click on the red letters."Original Hawken Rifle Kits"
These kits are not like any other hawken kits on the market. These are Hawken kits with a capital H. Casting from originals.
:hatsoff:

 

[cadjak]

As for the other part that you requested a picture of, I am not familiar with BP rifles and don't know it.

Thanks for all the help. The more I learn, the more that I hope that the rifle can find a home where it can be truly appreciated. Bob (my friend) would have liked that.

 

Yessirree! Looks real familiar like looking at an old friend. I believe you have a Hawken Shop "HAWKEN".When Art owned the shop in St.Louis, I stopped in to see him and all of his original Hawkens everytime I went through there.
He was a great guy and would spend time with a fellow answering questions.
:hatsoff:

 

[cadjak]

I figured out that you meant "entry" thimble and think that this is what you meant. If incorrect, please let me know.

 

Cadjac, See that PT flashing in the white ribbon right by the Members button? That means you have a Private message. Poke the flashing PM and it will open up for you. I don't know if you know about this feature yet or not, as I see you are a new member here. It's a neat feature.
Don

 

Yes sir, I really butchered that word up real good didn't I? :redface: :rotf: I am 100% convinced this is indeed a Hawken Shop HAWKEN. That's the casting Art lifted from one of his originals. "Entry Pipe" it is. :grin:
Don

 

[cadjak]

One person has said that the rifle looked like it may have a Bob Roller lock. How can I tell who made the lock? Is there a maker mark or something else that I could look for?
Thanks,
-cadjak

 

cadjak, you'll have to pull the lock to find out. It should have some marking on the inside of the plate. Let us know what you find there. Also, I have another question also. Is there any markings on the barrel between the rear sight and the breech on the top flat?
Thanks,
Don

 

[cadjak]

No writing on the barrel that I can see. Since I don't know a lock from my elbow, I'd be reluctant to start pulling things apart looking for an inside mark. What size splitting maul would I use?

 

Well shuckin's, the Hawken shop rifles had S. Hawken St. Louis stamped on the top barrel flat. This must be a rifle that was built using Hawken Shop parts with a custom barrel made by Bill Large. Back when Art Ressel owned the Hawken Shop in St. Louis, he would sell parts to builders or you could buy the whole kit. The present owners won't sell anything but the whole kit. No parts the last I talked to them on the phone.
The lock is the part on the right hand side of the barrel that has the hammer on it. A screw passes through the wood stock from the left side and screws into the lock plate. If you cock the hammer back to full cock you can see the end of the screw under the hammer. All you need is a screw driver. A splitting maul may be a little more power than ya need. :grin:
:hatsoff: