Hard times for BP shooters

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Just curious how many of you out there have resorted to making your own powder in these hard and expensive times, and if you are making your own, how’s it working out for you?
 
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well this current situation has had no impact on me. i have made my own for over 60 years and can't remember the last time i bought any "store bought" powder.
burned a pound the other day with 2 neighbors. one was using 777. over the chrono we were 50fps apart with the same loadings. his barrel was 32" and mine 28" smoke from mine was more :D
 
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well this current situation has had no impact on me. i have made my own for over 60 years and can't remember the last time i bought any "store bought" powder.
burned a pound the other day with 2 neighbors. one was using 777. over the chrono we were 50fps apart with the same loadings. his barrel was 32" and mine 28" smoke from mine was more :D

impressive results 👍
 
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SDSmlf

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All the power in the world to you if you want to make it, but I do enough other challenging stuff that I’m not looking additional challenges. Seems the manufacturers that are experts and know how to make blackpowder blow their plants up on regular basis. My basement is already deep enough.
 

SDSmlf

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made in one pound batches the worst that can happen is a bad burn. there is no challenge , no more than making bread.
Honestly, don’t make bread. But no issue with those that do, same as with those that make BP. But when I say I use 4F, seems a lot of folks hair spontaneously combusts. Wonder how our buddy @Britsmoothy is doing?
 
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I’ve got about 23 lbs of powder left and at the rate I shoot these days that a supply for years and years.

Buy in bulk online. Thank god for Graf’s, Maine Powder House, etc. If it gets to the point it’s no longer available anywhere or because outrageously expensive, I could see myself making my own powder but not yet.
 

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Commercial powder Is $85 a pound here if you can find it (usually I cannot). Homemade about .90c a pound and I have as much as I want when I want. Over the Chrony it measures 1861fps with 85 grains and a 50cal patched round ball, out of a T/C. Consistency is about 1and half inch groups at 50 meters. I do have some 4F I keep for the flash pan but other than that it`s all homemade including for the Cannon. Over 30 years of making it.
 

Bandit

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Just curious how many of you out there have resorted to making your own powder in these hard and expensive times, and if you are making your own, how’s it working out for you? I started last year and have pretty much gotten it down to a science through a lot of trial and error. After some testing I have found I can easily make powder that is faster burning than Swiss. Fouling is slightly worse but much better than Goex. Next test will be to get out a chronograph and check muzzle velocity compared to other commercial powders with equal weight loads.

This post is not meant to instruct others on how to make black powder, just a question of how many have begun doing so recently. If this post is in violation of rules (which from what I’ve read, I don’t believe it is) please remove!
I've been thinking about it just haven't had the time or money to start getting the stuff
 

Snake Pleskin

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well this current situation has had no impact on me. i have made my own for over 60 years and can't remember the last time i bought any "store bought" powder.
burned a pound the other day with 2 neighbors. one was using 777. over the chrono we were 50fps apart with the same loadings. his barrel was 32" and mine 28" smoke from mine was more :D
can you recommend a formula or method for making it?
 

Loyalist Dave

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I know that there are folks who make this stuff for personal use. They heavily rely on the fact that they are not "engaged in the business of manufacturing explosive materials" because they don't sell, trade, or give it away, and thus are not engaged in "business", BUT they seem to stop short of actually reading ALL that applies.

Here is the law and the adjoining laws that combine...., and here is why this is not discussed here, and why I don't do this at home...


Title 18 USC on black powder making and possession



Title 18, United States Code, Sec. 1102, Chapter 40. Importation, Manufacture, Distribution and Storage of Explosive Materials

§   841. Definitions

(d)
Except for the purposes of subsections (d), (e), (f), (g), (h), (i), and (j) of section 844 of this title, “explosives” means any chemical compound mixture, or device, the primary or common purpose of which is to function by explosion; the term includes, but is not limited to, dynamite and other high explosives, black powder, pellet powder, initiating explosives, detonators, safety fuses, squibs, detonating cord, igniter cord, and igniters.

(h) “Manufacturer” means any person engaged in the business of manufacturing explosive materials for purposes of sale or distribution or for his own use

§  842. Unlawful Acts (a) It shall be unlawful for any person—

(1) to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in explosive materials without a license issued under this chapter;

§845. Exceptions; Relief From Disabilities

(a) Except in the case of subsection (l), (m), (n), or (o) of section 842 and subsections (d), (e), (f), (g), (h), and (i) of section 844 of this title, this chapter shall not apply to:

(5) commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not to exceed fifty pounds, percussion caps, safety and pyrotechnic fuses, quills, quick and slow matches, and friction primers, intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms as defined in section 921(a)(16) of title 18 of the United States Code, or in antique devices as exempted from the term “destructive dev


So NOTE, "manufacture" includes making BP for personal use, even though it is prefaced by the phrase "..., in the business of...". There need not be any transactions for a person to be a "manufacturer" of BP, and BP is considered an "explosive" even though technically it deflagrates instead of detonating. So one needs a license to do this...., even for personal use.

NOTE that the Federal possession exemption is for fifty pound of black powder...commercially manufactured.... black powder. That means made by a licensed manufacture, NOT by a person making the stuff in the basement for personal use.

It is therefore NOT FAR FETCHED, that a Federal judge could easily find a person in violation of §845 above when in possession of a pound or less of home made black powder. You will read how folks only make a pound or two, well that's possession of powder that is NOT commercially manufactured..., , and UNTIL somebody actually gets federally charged and taken to court..., we have NO WAY of knowing how a judge is going to rule.

So when people say this is "perfectly legal" they are actually predicting it will be thought as such if dragged into a federal court, but they don't actually KNOW that it's legal. OH and some folks will cite instances when persons have been charged and the charges have later been dropped... well that leaves no record nor does it impact the law and its application. It just means the particular AUSA handling prosecution decided it was not worth the time, at that time...

Folks can do what they want when they want, but let's not pretend that they know for a fact the outcome if a third party known as a judge is involved, and further..., the law is subject to change at any time, without notification, since Congress has authorized an official in the Executive Branch to make the definitions....


LD
 
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Snake Pleskin

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I know that there are folks who make this stuff for personal use. They heavily rely on the fact that they are not "engaged in the business of manufacturing explosive materials" because they don't sell, trade, or give it away, and thus are not engaged in "business", BUT they seem to stop short of actually reading ALL that applies.

Here is the law and the adjoining laws that combine...., and here is why this is not discussed here, and why I don't do this at home...


Title 18 USC on black powder making and possession



Title 18, United States Code, Sec. 1102, Chapter 40. Importation, Manufacture, Distribution and Storage of Explosive Materials

§   841. Definitions

(d)
Except for the purposes of subsections (d), (e), (f), (g), (h), (i), and (j) of section 844 of this title, “explosives” means any chemical compound mixture, or device, the primary or common purpose of which is to function by explosion; the term includes, but is not limited to, dynamite and other high explosives, black powder, pellet powder, initiating explosives, detonators, safety fuses, squibs, detonating cord, igniter cord, and igniters.

(h) “Manufacturer” means any person engaged in the business of manufacturing explosive materials for purposes of sale or distribution or for his own use

§  842. Unlawful Acts (a) It shall be unlawful for any person—

(1) to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in explosive materials without a license issued under this chapter;

§845. Exceptions; Relief From Disabilities

(a) Except in the case of subsection (l), (m), (n), or (o) of section 842 and subsections (d), (e), (f), (g), (h), and (i) of section 844 of this title, this chapter shall not apply to:

(5) commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not to exceed fifty pounds, percussion caps, safety and pyrotechnic fuses, quills, quick and slow matches, and friction primers, intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms as defined in section 921(a)(16) of title 18 of the United States Code, or in antique devices as exempted from the term “destructive dev


So NOTE, "manufacture" includes making BP for personal use, even though it is prefaced by the phrase "..., in the business of...". There need not be any transactions for a person to be a "manufacturer" of BP, and BP is considered an "explosive" even though technically it deflagrates instead of detonating. So one needs a license to do this...., even for personal use.

NOTE that the Federal possession exemption is for fifty pound of black powder...commercially manufactured.... black powder. That means made by a licensed manufacture, NOT by a person making the stuff in the basement for personal use.

It is therefore NOT FAR FETCHED, that a Federal judge could easily find a person in violation of §845 above when in possession of a pound or less of home made black powder, and UNTIL somebody actually gets federally charged and taken to court..., we have NO WAY of knowing how a judge is going to rule.

So when people say this is "perfectly legal" they are actually predicting it will be thought as such if dragged into a federal court, but they don't actually KNOW that it's legal. OH and some folks will cite instances when persons have been charged and the charges have later been dropped... well that leaves no record nor does it impact the law and its application. It just means the particular AUSA handling prosecution decided it was not worth the time, at that time...

LD
Good to know the facts, thanks
 

Loyalist Dave

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Good to know the facts, thanks

You guys are welcome, and I was in the "I'm not engaged in business" group of thinkers, but I changed when I read the full law after 2012.

There are folks that will also write "how will they [Feds] know my BP is home made?" Most folks have never been to federal court, but I have, and what is used as "evidence", what is admissible, would astound most Americans. Show that the chemical ratio of recovered powder doesn't match any manufactured product known, and ad one internet comment about the desire to make BP, or even show the accused merely went on the internet to a site where the home making process was discussed..., I would say is merely suspicious,..., but the Feds would say is proof.

LD
 
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