Hammocks?

[coloradoclyde]

Other than aboard ships is there any record of hammocks being used ?

 

[tenngun]

Indians in what became florida are known to have used hammocks. I don't know of a reference to them on land, but ships with hammocks on board would have been seen in the Great lakes. Folks in HBC controlled Columbia river basen would have slept in hammocks coming to the Americas, would they have used them on land. its practical, but why not recorded? it is easier to use a hammock then build a bed on the ground. I don't use one, and would hesitate to say anyone did use one, but I have to say I have often wondered this myself.

 

[necchi]

I've never seen documentation of or heard talk of the use of a hammock.
Gotta be careful here, we can't use 20th-21st century ideas of comfort and apply that mindset to 200yrs ago.

it is easier to use a hammock then build a bed on the ground.

Interesting, when I read the question the exact opposite came to mind.
Why go through the hassle of building and carrying a hammock when the ground is always there?

:idunno:

 

[Ringel05]

Other than aboard ships is there any record of hammocks being used ?

The Ojibwa (Chippewa) claim to have invented the hammock and were in use by them when they encountered the first European trappers/explorers. It's highly likely the French who frequently trapped and traded with these tribes borrowed and used the hammock idea.

 

[necchi]

Well,
Let's at least try to stick to the facts,, https://www.google.com/search?q=hi...microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&gws_rd=ssl

 

[Ringel05]

Well,
Let's at least try to stick to the facts,, https://www.google.com/search?q=hi...t:en-US:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&gws_rd=ssl[/quote]
I am, I only posted the one fact that was applicable to the question. Yes, Columbus found the West Indians using Hammocks and the reference to the Athenian politician Alcibiades but that refers potentially to a suspended bed not specifically a hammock.
At least you should try pose a question for clarification instead of proving yourself an

:thumbsup:

 

[necchi]

Thank you for the kind words. Let me rephrase;

Can you provide a link or reference to verify this statement?

The Ojibwa (Chippewa) claim to have invented the hammock and were in use by them when they encountered the first European trappers/explorers.

Can you demonstrate how this statement,,
"It's highly likely,,"
can be of significance when used as a historical reference?

Because the Ojibwa (Chippewa) are very predominate in and around the western great lakes region and did have early contact with European traders, in the form of the founders of the HBC and I'm kind of in that area and I'm curious?

 

[Ringel05]

Thank you for the kind words. Let me rephrase;

Can you provide a link or reference to verify this statement?

The Ojibwa (Chippewa) claim to have invented the hammock and were in use by them when they encountered the first European trappers/explorers.

Can you demonstrate how this statement,,
"It's highly likely,,"
can be of significance when used as a historical reference?

Because the Ojibwa (Chippewa) are very predominate in and around the western great lakes region and did have early contact with European traders, in the form of the founders of the HBC and I'm kind of in that area and I'm curious?

Thank you for rephrasing. As you can see I tend to respond in kind........ :thumbsup:

First Nation Culture

The Ojibwa have made a number of significant contributions , they discovered maple sugar and wild rice and invented hammocks, snowshoes, canoeing, and lacrosse.

Ojibwa - History, Migration to the great lakes

Fur Trade | Indians of the Midwest

Not to mention my grandfather was Ojibwa.

 

[Ringel05]

More

Ojibwe Culture

We also know based on existing records of European contact with natives throughout the continent of development of trade, alliances, adoption of clothing, culture (to certain degrees), daily life "tools", etc.
Hence my assertion, "most likely."

 

[necchi]

With all respect,,
Trouble with that line of thinking is we can't prove a negative.
(I had to learn that here myself)
It's the bane of anyone that studies historical documents for provenance.
Legend, Oral history doesn't work.

To take it extreme by example,
Romans wore Togas in history,, European people knew of and battled with Romans in their history. European people came to the Americas, therefore Togas could have been worn during the Fur Trade era's,,
:idunno:

 

[Ringel05]

With all respect,,
Trouble with that line of thinking is we can't prove a negative.
(I had to learn that here myself)
It's the bane of anyone that studies historical documents for provenance.
Legend, Oral history doesn't work.

To take it extreme by example,
Romans wore Togas in history,, European people knew of and battled with Romans in their history. European people came to the Americas, therefore Togas could have been worn during the Fur Trade era's,,
:idunno:

I understand and yes your example is a (serious) hyperbole, but let's narrow the focus. When we take well documented knowns that are true across the board within the narrow parameters of our focus we can then make certain assumptions with a nearly 100% rate of accuracy.
i.e. an apple dropped from the Empire State building will fall at the same rate as an apple dropped from the Tanjong Pagar Centre in Singapore.
Pertaining to our discussion at hand, The exceptions are those tribes that forcibly resisted contact. The Ojibwa wasn't one of those tribes.
Given the similarity in records concerning contact with friendly native peoples I'm positive if we dug deep enough we'd find French documentation to back up my assertion that the Ojibwa had hammocks and that the Ojibwa traded regularly with the French.
Now, whether or not some French trapper actually "carried" a hammock around after trading for it or making it himself..... :idunno:
Just saying, based on what I have shown, it's possible.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Thanks guys for the spirited discussion, you have helped me look at it from a different angle.
If hammocks are more than a 1000 years old and Columbus took them to Europe. If they were used by naval ships and Native Americans, Then the question is why there is no record or why were they not used by the courier du bois, French traders, colonists, mountain men, long hunters, etc”¦..
When I look at the question from this perspective the answer becomes more clear.

 

[Ringel05]

I have a bunch of reading to do.

The Jesuit Relations and Allied Documents 1610 to 1791

 

[tenngun]

As I stated I don't use one, nor do we know of any used on land.People would have seen them well in to the Americas. Its easier to use as a bed in colder weather. You cant just throw your blanket on the ground as the ground will suck out your heat. Just think about the time to gather leafs,or cut boughs to make a bed, compared to the time it takes to string a hammock.
Did they use them back then...my gut feeling is no in general. Maybe a sailor that traded his pea coat for a wamus, or a captian who set up a trading post. I wouldn't use one, but I cant rule it out.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Great read..... I hope we find the documentaion

 

[Ringel05]

Great read..... I hope we find the documentaion

Other than a brief scan It'll be a little while before I can get to it though, way too much real life going on right now.

It just occurred to me, the challenges of nouns and verbage, Hammock could mean something different than what we identify as a hammock.
I remember reading one account where "hammock" was applied to a form of papoose suspended from the ceiling to hold a baby while the mother worked in the teepee/wigwam. Etymology can be a pain sometimes when researching history.

 

[Coot]

Hammock can also mean a raised bit of low ground in a swampy area. I was puzzled when I bought a Long Hammock barrel for my smoothbore & asked them how the shop got it's name.

Hammocks were used aboard men of war with their large crews but most civilian ships with small crews had built in berths. At any rate, hammocks had to be known to thousands of people in N. America but the lack of any record of use on land gives a hint that they may have been considered as only fit for impressed sailors. :idunno:

 

[coloradoclyde]

One fire can warm a group of men sleeping on the ground”¦.harder to do with hammocks.

But I do believe it possible that it could have been used in a fort or trading post. I was just hoping to find some reference.

 

[No Deer]

Well, just thinking from a practical point of view, a hammock would be something extra that needed to be carried, important consideration to someone on foot. Another consideration, if camping in hostile territory, it is easier to sleep concealed on the ground than it is suspended between two trees. Just my humble thoughts on the subject.

 

[Bear Rider]

I use a modern hammock as a quick overnight camp on my way to rendezvous or other destinations that require more than one day, and I used them for a couple of years before I got my primitive gear. There are several reasons why hammocks didn't catch on in that time period.

First, a traditional hammock is COLD if it's exposed to the open air. In a hammock, any breeze flows over AND UNDER you robbing you of heat, and your weight compresses any insulation between you and the hammock. On the ground, you can pile boughs under you to insulate you from the ground. Thus you can sleep warmer on the ground without packing extra blankets.

Second, the banana-like posture that a traditional hammock imposes on you isn't all that comfortable, even if you can find two trees exactly the right distance apart.

Finally, it is much more difficult to get out of a hammock in an emergency than a bed on the ground, and certainly doing so creates more fuss. Plus you would certainly be a more obvious target, strung up in the air rather than lying next to a bush.